The huge debt problem caused by e-tolls

supersunbird said:
What would it be? I'm sure it would have already paid off the GFIP (everything minus etoll infrastructure) upgrades in the 6 years that have passed.

If the fuel levy of 2014 had been used, it would have been paid off that year and still have had another R20 billion for other roads left over.
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1stly we in 2019 so speculating on what could have been doesn't change anything in the present. Sorry but i get annoyed when people do this..

2ndly the current debt is now double what it was if i recall seeing this stated in an article a while back. While people will argue about this and that and being anti the system blah blah drivel .. the reality has been law and legal requirements aren't being met by freeloader users on the highway.

Personally i think people on this forum and in Gauteng are the biggest hypocrites because when other people do this for electricity, municipal services then it's a user must pay issue.. but for eTolls its different? nope.

WRT how much..

In 2016 Gauteng used approx 7.5k kilo litres of fuel(diesel and petrol) per month, i.e. 7.5 BL/year
GFIP debt currently is R40.5B (2018/12) .

Assuming a pay off period of 5yrs.. thats (lets ignore rounding, interest for now etc) so thats about 37,5 BL rounded up to a 'nice' to make things easy to 40.5BL for 5yrs.. so R1 B/BL (billion per billion litre)..

So R1/litre ? yah i cheated the maths but point is thats 10x the quoted 10c/litre .. yes if u take national fuel consumption its 24BL/year which changes it yes but if i was living in Cpt i'd tell them to get stuffed.
 
Hmmm...increase the fuel levy to pay for the tolls and road maintenance...wasn't that the reason for all the levies in the first place? :unsure: Unless it's ring-fenced, it will be just more money down the drain, and every vehicle user will be paying the price.
 
Happy Days said:
Hmmm...increase the fuel levy to pay for the tolls and road maintenance...wasn't that the reason for all the levies in the first place? :unsure: Unless it's ring-fenced, it will be just more money down the drain, and every vehicle user will be paying the price.
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there was an entire full page advert as to why a fuel levy ISNT a great idea,
and plenty of people have pointed out how much the calculations are flawed.

problem comes with our Government NOT being responsible and doing things for the people.
rather to buy the newest BMW and general corruption.

and they only promise when its election time, and sing and dance for your votes.
when they are STILL in power they can do whatever they like with ZERO accountability.
 
krycor said:
1stly we in 2019 so speculating on what could have been doesn't change anything in the present. Sorry but i get annoyed when people do this..

2ndly the current debt is now double what it was if i recall seeing this stated in an article a while back. While people will argue about this and that and being anti the system blah blah drivel .. the reality has been law and legal requirements aren't being met by freeloader users on the highway.

Personally i think people on this forum and in Gauteng are the biggest hypocrites because when other people do this for electricity, municipal services then it's a user must pay issue.. but for eTolls its different? nope.

WRT how much..

In 2016 Gauteng used approx 7.5k kilo litres of fuel(diesel and petrol) per month, i.e. 7.5 BL/year
GFIP debt currently is R40.5B (2018/12) .

Assuming a pay off period of 5yrs.. thats (lets ignore rounding, interest for now etc) so thats about 37,5 BL rounded up to a 'nice' to make things easy to 40.5BL for 5yrs.. so R1 B/BL (billion per billion litre)..

So R1/litre ? yah i cheated the maths but point is thats 10x the quoted 10c/litre .. yes if u take national fuel consumption its 24BL/year which changes it yes but if i was living in Cpt i'd tell them to get stuffed.
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Well, then it would be best to finally heed our advice from back in 2014, and cut their losses, and stop letting the debt grow.

The e-toll system itself is flawed in so many aspects, and is not user pays in any case ( I can and do use many sections of GFIP roads for free, all legally), so don't bring electricity payments into it either.
 
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What was the original amount for building the roads.
Not this inflated figure for all the etoll centres and all the USELESS staff they employed,
The money they think they are owed should be the advertised rate and not the non compliance rate.
 
Fuzzbox said:
What was the original amount for building the roads.
Not this inflated figure for all the etoll centres and all the USELESS staff they employed,
The money they think they are owed should be the advertised rate and not the non compliance rate.
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Something like R12 billion, if I recall correctly.
 
Fuzzbox said:
What was the original amount for building the roads.
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What building roads?
All these swine did was widen the roads the apartheid engineers built (as with everything else the cANCer claims, all they've done is piggy-back on existing infrastructure). Thank the pope those Afrikaaners knew what they were doing or we'd be in a lot more **** than just the M2 collapsing.
 
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krycor said:
Personally i think people on this forum and in Gauteng are the biggest hypocrites because when other people do this for electricity, municipal services then it's a user must pay issue.. but for eTolls its different? nope.
Click to expand...

Your comparison is flawed, both are user pays but they don't and yet you're salty when we too don't.
Your argument exposes your own hypocisy and belief that we are after not all equal.

Answer us for example why e-tolls are user pays, but NHI isn't?
 
pinball wizard said:
What building roads?
All these swine did was widen the roads the apartheid engineers built (as with everything else the cANCer claims, all they've done is piggy-back on existing infrastructure). Thank the pope those Afrikaaners knew what they were doing or we'd be in a lot more **** than just the M2 collapsing.
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Facts matter, they also built some offramps and onramps in PTA, put up lighting or improved it, built a decent enough moron-driver intrusion-preventing centre concrete barrier.
 
Start taxing the taxi owners according to number of taxis they own. Why should law-abiding citizens always pay.
 
evilstebunny said:
That is basically the song of their people..

Remember how they managed to slip the arms deal & Nkandla past us, firepools nogal, but when they let the Guptas rule the people started wising up to their duplicitous nature.
We now know they up to no good & can't be trusted, but despite the cANCer's best efforts this is still a democracy and they will have to bow to the will of the people.
And the people said NO to e-tolls so take your corrupt little scheme and stick it where the sun don't shine we will never pay for it.
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This here. Their objection to raising the fuel tax was never against raising it but raising it for the right reason. Since then we are paying Rands and not mere cents more in fuel levies all for the purpose of funding corruption and they still want us to pay for it directly in some manner. People have wisened up to this fact and that we are paying for everything again now. We demand that these things be scrapped. There is no negotiation any more. We don't need another plan because we paid for it and the money is there.

eg2505 said:
what worries me is governments who railroad things through like this,
tend to then become quite authoritarian in future.

so when will we get a president like Chavez or Gadaffi?
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When the ANC loses an election and refuses to acknowledge it.

krycor said:
1stly we in 2019 so speculating on what could have been doesn't change anything in the present. Sorry but i get annoyed when people do this..

2ndly the current debt is now double what it was if i recall seeing this stated in an article a while back. While people will argue about this and that and being anti the system blah blah drivel .. the reality has been law and legal requirements aren't being met by freeloader users on the highway.

Personally i think people on this forum and in Gauteng are the biggest hypocrites because when other people do this for electricity, municipal services then it's a user must pay issue.. but for eTolls its different? nope.

WRT how much..

In 2016 Gauteng used approx 7.5k kilo litres of fuel(diesel and petrol) per month, i.e. 7.5 BL/year
GFIP debt currently is R40.5B (2018/12) .

Assuming a pay off period of 5yrs.. thats (lets ignore rounding, interest for now etc) so thats about 37,5 BL rounded up to a 'nice' to make things easy to 40.5BL for 5yrs.. so R1 B/BL (billion per billion litre)..

So R1/litre ? yah i cheated the maths but point is thats 10x the quoted 10c/litre .. yes if u take national fuel consumption its 24BL/year which changes it yes but if i was living in Cpt i'd tell them to get stuffed.
Click to expand...
What utter drivel. The original suggestion was a fuel tax but everyone kept bickering how a few cents extra would be unfair despite everyone benefiting. Since then we are paying Rands more in fuel levies but they haven't paid the debt. It's not about not paying (since when is owner paying = user pay?) but about refusing to pay for a flawed system where we would pay more in collection costs than for the actual roads. This is simply now about them being hardegat!
 
Also,
evilstebunny said:
Your comparison is flawed, both are user pays but they don't and yet you're salty when we too don't.
Your argument exposes your own hypocisy and belief that we are after not all equal.

Answer us for example why e-tolls are user pays, but NHI isn't?
Click to expand...
Exactly! if it is 'user pays' why aren't they paying for the roads/highway going through the city in their town or city? Who paid for them?

Who paid for the roads in upington/springbok/bloemfontein? Who paid for the road going past their houses? Not the users.

Why is GP then suddenly expected to pay for the roads going right through the city?

Electricity is a bad analogy. GP is being asked to pay, despite the rest of the country getting intra-city roads for free (subsidised by GP). It is actually the rest of the country that are the free loaders.

A special GP fuel levy is therefore unfair too - but at least cheap to collect and enforce.
 
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eg2505 said:
there was an entire full page advert as to why a fuel levy ISNT a great idea,
and plenty of people have pointed out how much the calculations are flawed.

problem comes with our Government NOT being responsible and doing things for the people.
rather to buy the newest BMW and general corruption.

and they only promise when its election time, and sing and dance for your votes.
when they are STILL in power they can do whatever they like with ZERO accountability.
Click to expand...
I hear you - was talking about fuel levies in general. The reality is that we, the tax-paying citizens, will continue to pay the price, and there's nothing we can do about it. It's easy for the government to spend money that doesn't belong to them as long as the idiots keep voting them in.
 
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