The "Is Windows 8 a Flop?" Thread

The only reason I'm still on windows is adobe. The day they make cs in Linux is the day I kiss windows goodbye.
 
BrandOfRiva said:
In big corporate more and more the tablets are becoming the norm. People working less and less on their laptops and more on their tablets. Taking tablets home to work on etc.
imo from what I'm seeing at my customers its inevitable that the tablets will take over from most desktops.
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Utter, utter Rubbish. You might have more sales people and management that are using tablets, but for every one of them there are 1,000 other poor plebs stuck in a back office, warehouse, cubicle city, or office tower that are chained to their desktops and are laboriously typing away entering numbers or text or digitising documents, preparing user manuals, accounts and manipulating data in a myriad of ways. You are completely ignoring them. The work they do, cannot be done on a tablet. Much of the software they are using is not even available for a tablet. And the kind of data they are working can never effectively be entered in on a tablet, it is simply not feasible.

The desktop will be with us for many, many years to come.
And along with the keyboard and mouse it will evolve in it's own way, largely independently of tablet evolution.
Tablets might influence the desktop, but will never, ever replace it.
At least not until entering data on a tablet somehow becomes faster and more efficient than entering data with a keyboard.
 
Roman4604 said:
You'll be left with a newer, leaner & meaner Win7 that happens to have a full screen (non-hierarchical) Start menu, exclusively for the launching of desktop programs. Here is what my All apps screen looks like absent of RT...
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There seems to be this idea out there that Win8 is screamingly faster than Win7. In truth, other than the startup and shutdown, there is not much of a difference. Some benchmarks have multimedia coming out faster but that's it. Games are the same or slower, apps too. It's not leaner and meaner and why would someone install it just so they can remove RT which is one of the things that MS are pushing so much with the OS?
 
Abe said:
There seems to be this idea out there that Win8 is screamingly faster than Win7.
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Sure, not that level of improvement, but for me it does have a slicker & smoother feel to it e.g. file copying. Besides the boot/shutdown there are enough little improvements to make it worthwhile. And then obviously there is the keen price.

Abe said:
why would someone install it just so they can remove RT which is one of the things that MS are pushing so much with the OS?
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Yeah, does seem a bit daft, but in my opinion that's the price of being part of a longer-term strategic initiative.

I don't think MS are totally unaware of the disruption Win8 is causing with desktop users, but for now they have bigger fish to fry, that is to stem the loss of a large part of their market to the every increasing threat of tablet type OSs over the next few years. Think of what Android & IOS will be like in 2-3 years from now.

My guess is they decided they have to push (no force) RT into the market now with Win8 to have any chance of gaining some sort of widespread market awareness/familiarity, even though it would result in some initial casualties on the desktop side. It would have been so easy for them to include some 'Optimise for Desktop' type installation options in this initial version of Win8, but I suspect that would defeat the ends of their greater (unavoidable) experiment.
 
I am a heavy tablet user (both Android and iPad) and I use my tablets a lot at work ... BUT it will never ever be my production device. I have to type a lot of reports and for that I require a proper keyboard (I actually invest in top quality keyboards to make my job/life better). The Bluetooth keyboards for tablets will never be as good and the Word-type apps are very limited. Even Windows Pro tablets will not replace a proper laptop for me for doing most production work. A tablet in my mind remains a consumption device ... and yes there most definitely is an important place for that in business (especially in field use as I do with my technicians) but at the end of the day we all need that desktop or laptop to do the heavy stuff ... and Modern UI is an abomination in this regard. No way will I be convinced it works. I just cannot get rid of it. When I tred to pair my phone with my ultrabook today Modern UI pops up to do the setup ... :mad:
 
Garyvdh said:
Utter, utter Rubbish. You might have more sales people and management that are using tablets, but for every one of them there are 1,000 other poor plebs stuck in a back office, warehouse, cubicle city, or office tower that are chained to their desktops and are laboriously typing away entering numbers or text or digitising documents, preparing user manuals, accounts and manipulating data in a myriad of ways. You are completely ignoring them. The work they do, cannot be done on a tablet. Much of the software they are using is not even available for a tablet. And the kind of data they are working can never effectively be entered in on a tablet, it is simply not feasible.

The desktop will be with us for many, many years to come.
And along with the keyboard and mouse it will evolve in it's own way, largely independently of tablet evolution.
Tablets might influence the desktop, but will never, ever replace it.
At least not until entering data on a tablet somehow becomes faster and more efficient than entering data with a keyboard.
Click to expand...

It really depends what industry and job type I will agree. You are never going to run a high end 3d model or pipeline simulation on a tablet. At least not until centralized computing and cloud services becomes the norm. And the cost factor and requirements for a normal admin type job also doesn't see the need for mobile computing, albeit tablets aren't all that expensive relatively speaking.

You will be surprised however at the adoption of laptops in business literally overtaking desktops even for staff primarily in the office. So the way I see it is that while you can never replace the standard desktop for certain functions the tablet will still be widely adopted. An engineer checking CAD drawings on site, a CEO keeping up to date with email while on the move, an IT guy who always needs a PC on the go and the way I see it pretty much any position in marketing. Hell even pretty much everyone in finance save the ones handling the day to day stuff. I have even seen a video wall system where various inputs are controlled by an IPAD.

Oh and by the way tablets can have keyboards and docking stations too :p or even built in keyboards with professional looking covers and stands and styluses for drawing and design, keep up with the times ;)

I think the convenience of owning one device for all would justify tablets replacing most other devices with exceptions of course. Its just one asset for business to count, it is relatively standardized arguably, not so expensive, can do most functions, is mobile to enable people to work from home and so on.
 
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Garyvdh said:
Utter, utter Rubbish. You might have more sales people and management that are using tablets, but for every one of them there are 1,000 other poor plebs stuck in a back office, warehouse, cubicle city, or office tower that are chained to their desktops and are laboriously typing away entering numbers or text or digitising documents, preparing user manuals, accounts and manipulating data in a myriad of ways. You are completely ignoring them. The work they do, cannot be done on a tablet. Much of the software they are using is not even available for a tablet. And the kind of data they are working can never effectively be entered in on a tablet, it is simply not feasible.
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At present yes - in a few years? Most of the guys I'm coming into contact with are not sales people/management - they're mid-level staffers at various banking institutions and other big corps. IT Operations?These guys are slowly but surely using tabs for more of their work.
As I said - I don't think this is going to happen tomorrow. Processing and input capability of the devices will need to improve. Applications made to do the work will also happen as the devices improve. Cloud capability is also an area that will empower portable devices.

Garyvdh said:
The desktop will be with us for many, many years to come.
And along with the keyboard and mouse it will evolve in it's own way, largely independently of tablet evolution.
Tablets might influence the desktop, but will never, ever replace it.
At least not until entering data on a tablet somehow becomes faster and more efficient than entering data with a keyboard.
Click to expand...
Ye I dont see the desktop ever going away (which is a good thing imo - I'm a big fan). Just doubt its going to be nearly as prolific in 10 years time.
 
Bobbin said:
It really depends what industry and job type I will agree.
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What this guy said - call centre agents, developers, and some high end users will not be moving away in a hurry.

Most of the other clients in big corps are already for the most part aimed to a thin client type / laptop scenarios. General rank and file are basically using office productivity suits and in-house apps. Even most of IT ops dont really need alot horses to get the job done (most the ops stuff is done on server).
The big exception I can think of is reporting via excel etc. Many of the corps are trying to move away from that to centralized reporting scenario's for consistency across business units. There are other examples I'm sure.
Processing and input needs to still go a bit of a way for this to become a common occurance. (and as you said the software tools to get the job done)
 
That Ubuntu for Android idea has potential but not so sure if it going to catch on or not. It would be great to carry around a tablet/phone and then plug it into a dock to get a full desktop OS.

09-Ubuntu-for-Android.jpg
 
Bobbin said:
Considering the global trend towards portable computing I think Windows 8 was a necessary evil. Regardless of what many people may think, in business there is just too much dependence on the Microsoft infrastructure from office suites, third party compatibility such as autodesk products, server products, SQL, Sharepoint and Active Directory etc... Not to mention all the compliance and governance surrounding these.

The widespread adoption of tablets in business left a gaping hole in MS strategy while it also left most of us consumers having to cart around multiple devices. Windows 8 addresses all of these concerns and I believe it is a far longer term strategy than what one would expect in this industry. Slow adoption of windows 8 is expected until the day comes when businesses have no choice but to make the call on how best to move forward.
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That's a non sequitur. The concerns raised by most here are not that Win 8 has tablet OS elements, but that the tablet OS interface invades the traditional desktop interface as used on traditional desktop/laptop PCs which is most certainly alive and still predominant in the business world. There is no reason why MS couldn't integrate the two better or even provide two interfaces with easy switching and proper conventions. MS did not have to screw up this badly.

I have been using windows 8 for a few months now on a standard non touch screen laptop. Honestly I work faster on it than Windows 7. My only worry is UAC setting dependence for metro but I seldom use metro at the moment.
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You use the traditional interface. Metro is unnecessary and in fact impractical for your machine. Now if included for free and with little waste of resources, why not, but when forced on people for not good reason and when START button is removed, I have to scratch my head - like the author of that Youtube video.
 
Bobbin said:
This was in healthcare industry nothing to do with tech.

And this is south Africa. Imagine a more first world experience.
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This is at some corporate managed healthcare level - some type of HMO or Medical Aid, right?

It's not real healthcare as clinical medicine, management of patient records or clinical research.
 
Space_Chief said:
You use the traditional interface. Metro is unnecessary and in fact impractical for your machine. Now if included for free and with little waste of resources, why not, but when forced on people for not good reason and when START button is removed, I have to scratch my head - like the author of that Youtube video.
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I use Windows 8 on my laptop and the only time I see Metro is if I start up my laptop or when I have installed a new program and I need to pin the program to my taskbar or send a shortcut to the desktop. As for the start button, get over it. Metro (or whatever the hell it is called now) is as easy or easier to use as the old start menu was.
 
BrandOfRiva said:
At present yes - in a few years? Most of the guys I'm coming into contact with are not sales people/management - they're mid-level staffers at various banking institutions and other big corps. IT Operations?These guys are slowly but surely using tabs for more of their work.
As I said - I don't think this is going to happen tomorrow. Processing and input capability of the devices will need to improve. Applications made to do the work will also happen as the devices improve. Cloud capability is also an area that will empower portable devices.
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I think that depends on the work. If your work involves answering a few short emails, attending meetings and taking a few short notes, dictation to other people and so on, a tablet will probably do. You're probably spending most of your time in meetings with colleagues or customers. But behind this person as Gary said, are many others who need to actually implement what this guy comes up with.

If tablets (not slate or tablet PCs) are replacing PCs than it's not because PCs are becoming obsolete, but I would say, that the people who used PCs before did not really need all these additional resources - such as a large screen and ability to have many windows open and being able to easily copy/cut text/graphics etc. These people used their PCs to do pretty simple things, like answer a few emails, make a few appointments, etc. That type of work can be done on a tablet.

Ye I dont see the desktop ever going away (which is a good thing imo - I'm a big fan). Just doubt its going to be nearly as prolific in 10 years time.
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I think the market will compartmentalize more. People will no longer need a big SUV or bakkie with V8 engine, but a smaller station wagon or 2.5l light bakkie will suffice. But we're not saying that station wagons are now replacing light trucks to do the same type of work. What I'm saying is that most of those heavy SUV/bakkie drivers did not really need them in the first place.

Remember, there was a time not so long ago, when PCs did not exist at all, and somehow civilization existed. Newspapers were written, aircraft were designed, medical aid and insurance companies functioned, houses were sold, etc.
 
Crowley said:
Metro (or whatever the hell it is called now) is as easy or easier to use as the old start menu was.
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Why should I get over it, Crowley? What right do you have to dictate to people what is easier or not?
Pro tip for you: if something is easier, it's a fact which can be self deduced. I don't need people to tell me it's easier. I'll see it for myself. But I guess I'm just not seeing it. Maybe it's not easier? Maybe not everyone's the same?
 
Space_Chief said:
Why should I get over it, Crowley? What right do you have to dictate to people what is easier or not?
Pro tip for you: if something is easier, it's a fact which can be self deduced. I don't need people to tell me it's easier. I'll see it for myself. But I guess I'm just not seeing it. Maybe it's not easier? Maybe not everyone's the same?
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Windows 7

Click start button
Click all programs
Scroll to the program group you want
Click on said program group
Click on program to open it

Windows 8

Hit Windows key
Type in first letter of the program you are looking for
(optional) type in second letter of the program you are looking for
Click on program to open it.

There you go, despite you PMS induced ramblings I still managed to show you that it is easier. If you would like to, I can draw a pretty picture in MS paint (that I can open in 3 key strokes) to show you how I did it.

If MS wanted you to keep on using the start button they would have included it but how dare they tell you what is easier. The bastards. I guess it is true that there are none as blind as those who don't want to see.
 
You can actually do the windows key + program name thing in Win7 as well. I'm getting progressively more irritated with the design decisions made in Win8 to be honest. Metro is a pile of crap. It isn't easier in any way. It's just a group of unused attention-grabbing applications that want to force themselves onto my desktop.
 
Space_Chief said:
Why should I get over it, Crowley? What right do you have to dictate to people what is easier or not?
Pro tip for you: if something is easier, it's a fact which can be self deduced. I don't need people to tell me it's easier. I'll see it for myself. But I guess I'm just not seeing it. Maybe it's not easier? Maybe not everyone's the same?
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Whoah! A little less caffeine there dude.

@crowley, win 8 forces you to use keyboard for navigation - not cool on a GUI - personally, I am fan of this approach (use a 3rd party app on win7 to achieve the same effect) but lots of people prefer the visual approach
 
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