The Middle East Conflict Thread

Sackboy said:
Nonsense. You aren't reading what I wrote.

The Palestinians keep changing the goal posts. They want Jerusalem for a start. The Israelis have had enough of their lack of reason. In fact there was a LOT of pressure within Israel to make peace after years of violence. Part of that was the wall and giving back some captured territory, removing Jewish settlers to give land to Palestinians. Then Hamas came about with their hard-line rhetoric and it turned bad - and we see the result.
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Tis true, many are dying on both sides. I don't believe that Israel is anti-peace; but Hamas are hell bent on not negotiating. Thus we have the recent result.
 
Sackboy said:
We shouldn't.
We should support any side that encourages peace and not religious hatred or terrorism.
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Fair enough, but its difficult when everyone is pointing fingers. As I pointed out there is no real "right" side in this conflict. Unfortunately Israel sees Hamas as a stumbling block to peace in the Middle East. Hamas refuses to recognise or negotiate with Israel. As such we have an impasse.
 
Just wish they would get around to dropping an atomic bomb soon.
 
rwenzori said:
Does it matter? You are talking about children.
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So you have no problem with that?

The squeaky-voiced Mickey Mouse lookalike, named Farfur, is the star of a weekly children’s program called Tomorrow’s Pioneers on the official Hamas TV station (Al-Aqsa TV), which broadcasts from Gaza via satellite to the entire Arab world. Farfur and his co-host, a young girl named Saraa’, teach children about such things as the importance of the daily prayers and drinking milk, but also instruct them to hate Israel and the US and support "resistance" – a euphemism for terror.

Farfur tells children that they must pray in the mosque five times a day until there is “world leadership under Islamic leadership.” The earnest and soft-spoken Saraa’ explains that the nucleus of the Islamic leadership of the world will be from “all of Palestine,” including Israel.
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Striving for peace ?
 
timgaul said:
No that is completely wrong, it is not de facto at all. It is a full member of the United Nations, quiet capable of being on the Security Council recognised by 192 full member nations.

Resolution 181 is not too different to UN Security Council Resolution 1244, for example.
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Sorry, I know little about Kosovo.

The state exists - de facto. With US backing, of course it is a "full member" of the UN. Only 3 of 22 Arab League members have normal diplomatic relations with it. The UN does not recognise the illegally obtained territory though. Personally I consider, as I have said, that the state came into being illegitimately.

timgaul said:
There were processes in place to create such a nation but Hamas declared them invalid upon taking power, they then refused to recognise the State of Israel and murdered innocent Israelis with their bombs and rockets. Had Hamas not provoked and angered Israel they may have got what they wanted.
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Israel has NEVER seriously taken any lasting steps to bring about peace. I do not think they want it. Israel are just as guilty of murdering the innocent.
 
rwenzori said:
I never said that sort of thing does not happen. My point is that Israel are just as guilty, at least, and probably more so as they hold the power. I condemn both sides, as I have said repeatedly.
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The problem is that you condemn those that act in self defence.

Anyone that fights the terrorism being spread by the same ideology as Hamas should be commended.
 
rwenzori said:
The state exists - de facto. With US backing, of course it is a "full member" of the UN. Only 3 of 22 Arab League members have normal diplomatic relations with it. The UN does not recognise the illegally obtained territory though. Personally I consider, as I have said, that the state came into being illegitimately.
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You are certainly naive and ill-informed. As a full member of the UN Israel is not a de facto state as it has diplomatic ties with 163 countries, perhaps you should look up the definition of the phrase? In fact your definition would state the following countries do not exist (which they most certainly do in all independent sovereignty):

Cyprus
Czech Republic
Liechtenstein
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Republic of Korea
People's Republic of China
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Slovakia
Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, Morocco, Tunisia, Kuwait, Algeria, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Somalia, Djibouti, Comoros, Eritrea

The Arab states refusal to accept the situation is only fuelling the problem. The majority of the world accepts the legitimacy of Israel, as long as people with your attitude exist there will always be conflict.

Israel does not recognise the West Bank and Gaza as being part of Israel either, but you know that considering your enfranchisement comments.

rwenzori said:
Israel has NEVER seriously taken any lasting steps to bring about peace. I do not think they want it. Israel are just as guilty of murdering the innocent.
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Israel and Fatah were in discussions, especially with finally establishing of Palestinian Authority to enable the handover of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Hamas rejected all negotiations.

Israel is not de facto state. Israel was mandated legally by the UN, your failure to accept that is a failure to recognise the UN - another problem in itself. Negotiations were taking place before Hamas chose to no longer recognise Israel. Palestine is completely unreasonable to Israeli offers refusing to negotiate.

You are blind to the point of it being frustrating by ignoring absolute fact.
 
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Credit to the cops there were plenty of them there to keep them under control
 
Frankie said:
The problem is that you condemn those that act in self defence.

Anyone that fights the terrorism being spread by the same ideology as Hamas should be commended.
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Both sides act in what they regard as self-defence. Can you not see that?
 
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rwenzori said:
I never said that sort of thing does not happen. My point is that Israel are just as guilty, at least, and probably more so as they hold the power. I condemn both sides, as I have said repeatedly.
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Not of purposefully targeting civilians, however. That's the kind of people Israel is attempting to eliminate.
 
timgaul said:
Israel was mandated legally by the UN, your failure to accept that is a failure to recognise the UN - another problem in itself.
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OK. We have a good start here. You, oh enlightened Timgaul, at least recognises the UN.

Will you then explain to us lesser beings why Israel is in breach of more UN resolutions than any other country on earth?
 
rwenzori said:
Both sides act in what they regard as self-defence. Can you not see that?
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Well then stop complaining about the evil Israel, if they are just as guilty.

And yes, Hamas poked the big dog with a stick. Wonder why the got bitten?
 
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