The Middle East Conflict Thread

aperio

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The real killers of women and children

Israel is always first to accuse the Palestinians of killing their women and children.

Read the true facts: who are really killing women and chiildren in large numbers.

Killers of women and children
 

rwenzori

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The Palestinians wanted a state, so they got two territories. They aren't really viable, mostly because greater Israel is very very small to start with. What was the option for them - become Israeli citizens??

I'd dispute the word "got" - they sort of semi-have Gaza, but it is so hemmed in, and restricted, they have only "got" it as the Jews of Warsaw "had" their ghetto. They haven't really "got" the West Bank in any real terms, other than a bantustan.

Being sensible about it, Israel cannot exist as a Jewish/Zionist/whatever state by allowing citizenship to the Palestinians, so they'll never go for that. I suppose then the two-state option is the only possibility, but it must be looked at properly, and there'll have to be a lot of aid and assistance to get the Palestinian state up to viability, as the masses of aid over the years seems to have gotten Israel up to viability. Or they could strike oil, then the yanks'll invade!! ( Just kidding LOL ).

It seems beyond hope though.
 

Sackboy

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I'd dispute the word "got" - they sort of semi-have Gaza, but it is so hemmed in, and restricted, they have only "got" it as the Jews of Warsaw "had" their ghetto. They haven't really "got" the West Bank in any real terms, other than a bantustan.

Being sensible about it, Israel cannot exist as a Jewish/Zionist/whatever state by allowing citizenship to the Palestinians, so they'll never go for that. I suppose then the two-state option is the only possibility, but it must be looked at properly, and there'll have to be a lot of aid and assistance to get the Palestinian state up to viability, as the masses of aid over the years seems to have gotten Israel up to viability. Or they could strike oil, then the yanks'll invade!! ( Just kidding LOL ).

It seems beyond hope though.
Becoming a state has responsibilities (cc. Iran). The Strip has a coast and a border with Egypt, so they have more potential. The trouble starts when they misuse resources to ship in arms and other nefarious goods. One of the reasons the Nordic countries suspended AID was because it was going to the wrong people.
 

LazyLion

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I'd dispute the word "got" - they sort of semi-have Gaza, but it is so hemmed in, and restricted, they have only "got" it as the Jews of Warsaw "had" their ghetto. They haven't really "got" the West Bank in any real terms, other than a bantustan.

Being sensible about it, Israel cannot exist as a Jewish/Zionist/whatever state by allowing citizenship to the Palestinians, so they'll never go for that. I suppose then the two-state option is the only possibility, but it must be looked at properly, and there'll have to be a lot of aid and assistance to get the Palestinian state up to viability, as the masses of aid over the years seems to have gotten Israel up to viability. Or they could strike oil, then the yanks'll invade!! ( Just kidding LOL ).

It seems beyond hope though.

Why not? See, this is the kind of bias I am talking about. You just do not want to recognize Israel as any kind of state at all. Why can't they have a country called Israel... or whatever... with both Jews and Palestinians as citizens? Isn't that what South Africa is? Aren't there already "Palestinians" and Arabs who carry Israeli passports? I don't understand why they can't be citizens of Israel if they don't mind living in peace. Does Israel refuse them citizenship?
 

DJ...

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Well what DID you mean then? We can't read minds. [This is a fast, brutal debate - no slackers here please :p ]

Was maybe poorly worded on my part (more than likely caused by a blemish in the space-time continuum :D ). Gary cleared up where he is coming from though. Makes more sense now. He's a picky fence-sitter - only when the Palestinians are on the receiving end. Me on the other hand, I couldn't really care - both sides are beyond the point of forgiveness and it's high time they were left to destroy each other. Whoever comes out trumps doesn't bother me in the least little bit - but IMO it's the only solution. I don't believe that either side is "more justified" in their actions than the other. I am a true fence sitter in this situation, and proud of it. Those taking sides only serve to justify the senseless killings of innocents, for one of the most ridiculous reasons in the history of war. But then again, I don't think war has ever, or will ever be perpetrated for justified reasons...
 

LazyLion

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Was maybe poorly worded on my part (more than likely caused by a blemish in the space-time continuum :D ). Gary cleared up where he is coming from though. Makes more sense now. He's a picky fence-sitter - only when the Palestinians are on the receiving end. Me on the other hand, I couldn't really care - both sides are beyond the point of forgiveness and it's high time they were left to destroy each other. Whoever comes out trumps doesn't bother me in the least little bit - but IMO it's the only solution. I don't believe that either side is "more justified" in their actions than the other. I am a true fence sitter in this situation, and proud of it. Those taking sides only serve to justify the senseless killings of innocents, for one of the most ridiculous reasons in the history of war. But then again, I don't think war has ever, or will ever be perpetrated for justified reasons...

I have no particular preference for the one side over the other... other than that the Israelis are not given to suicide bombing and plane-hijacking... that is the swing vote.
 

rwenzori

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Becoming a state has responsibilities (cc. Iran). The Strip has a coast and a border with Egypt, so they have more potential. The trouble starts when they misuse resources to ship in arms and other nefarious goods. One of the reasons the Nordic countries suspended AID was because it was going to the wrong people.

Sure! But IF anyone wants peace, they have to work on it and build trust. And both sides will slip up here and there, but if there is sufficient goodwill, you can get past that. A long walk to peace, as it were ;)
 

LazyLion

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/01/saudi-arabia-hamas-gaza

Saudis blame Hamas amid calls for talks with Fatah

Saudi Arabia yesterday blamed Hamas for Israel's continuing offensive in the Gaza Strip and urged it to resolve bitter differences with the western-backed Palestinian Authority - even as divisions deepened with a new charge of treachery.

Arab League foreign ministers meeting in emergency session in Cairo warned it was not possible to help until the Islamist movement in control of Gaza returned to national unity talks with its rival Fatah.

A furious Hamas attacked the Arab League stance as "pathetic". Spokesman Fawzi Barhoum also accused Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, of ordering members of Fatah in Gaza to gather intelligence on the whereabouts of Hamas leaders to pass to Israel - a grave charge that underscores the deep rift between the factions.

Discussions between Arab states were sharp too, amid bickering over calls for an emergency summit conference in Qatar tomorrow .

"Everyone is watching as the intensity of Arab-Arab disputes increase," warned the league's secretary general, Amr Moussa.

"We must close ranks and stop pouring oil on the fire."

Moussa advised the Palestinians to demand a ceasefire resolution from the UN security council despite the clear risk that it would be vetoed by the US. Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri scorned the Arab position as "weaker than statements issued by the EU".

Diplomats reported that with demonstrations across the Arab world, pressure is growing to freeze or withdraw an important peace offer to Israel in protest against the Gaza onslaught.

Syria and Gulf maverick Qatar want a summit. But they met fierce resistance from Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the western-backed Arab states that are most hostile to Hamas. This week Syria suspended its own indirect talks with Israel.

Fourteen of the league's 22 members are required for a summit to be convened. "The Egyptians don't want their role to be exposed," said an Arab diplomat. "That's why they don't want the summit."

Jordan, which has a large Palestinian population, is keeping a lower profile. Egypt is under attack, especially by Lebanon's Hizbullah movement, for refusing to open the Rafah border crossing point at the southern end of the Gaza Strip.

Saudi Arabia did not name Hamas, but it was clear who was being blamed for having provoked Israel's attacks by failing to renew a shaky six-month ceasefire when it expired on 19 December.

"This terrible massacre would not have happened if the Palestinian people were united behind one leadership," Saudi foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal told the Palestinians.

"Your Arab brothers cannot extend to you the hand of real help, if you do not extend the hand of affection to each other," he added, urging Hamas and Fatah to form a national unity government.

As the Cairo talks took place, Egyptian riot police nearby beat back thousands of protesters - many from the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood - shouting slogans in support of the people of Gaza.

Western diplomats fear the league may withdraw its Arab Peace Initiative, unveiled in 2002 and endorsed in 2007. The plan, seen by most governments - including the incoming US administration - as the most promising basis for comprehensive Middle East negotiations, offers Israel the recognition of all Arab states if it withdraws to the 1967 borders and agrees to an independent Palestinian state.

Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, an ally of Syria and Hamas, called on Arab leaders to act quickly to end the Israeli attacks.

As diplomats struggled to keep up with events on the ground, the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, flew to Syria for talks with President Bashar al-Assad.

Erdogan denied planning to meet Khaled Mashal, the exiled Hamas leader, before flying to Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

Hmmm, seems like there are some sensible voices among the Arab brothers.
 

Frankie

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The vile ideology responsible for most terrorist acts these days

Israel is always first to accuse the Palestinians of killing their women and children.

Read the true facts: who are really killing women and chiildren in large numbers.

Killers of women and children

And here we have your side "teaching their children".

That ideology is vile.
 

BBSA

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Israel starting to pick up internal problems as a result of their US sponsored terrorist attacks on Gaza:

[/URL]

It is silly propaganda like this that made me anti-Palestinian.
 

Frankie

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Vile ideology attacks civilian market

WARNING: Graphic video of Israel Defense Force's attack on Gaza civilian market -- banned on YouTube

Attack on civilian market


Please forward this URL to your friends. The world HAS to know about the atrocities carried out by Israel.
Forward it to all our friends - only radical extremists would want this in their inbox :rolleyes:

Here's another attack on a civilian market by the type that you support.
 

marine1

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Garyvdh, you can keep your recycled American opinions to yourself. I, for one, am certainly not interested.
Well I am not interested in your anti Semitic views either. You clearly have an issue with Jews and their right to exist. :rolleyes:
 

marine1

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Both sides...
I think maybe you need to go and read all the posts in the numerous threads. It is not Both sides, the Palestinian terrorists are the cause and this is exactly why some Arab states are blaming Ham A$$
 

Frankie

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Leaflets warn Gazans to get out of harm's way

No such warnings from the terrorist organisation Hamas.

I wonder if all those Pallies that danced in the street when the WTC was attacked killing thousands of innocent people, realised that they were dependant of AID from those whose death they celebrated.

 

rwenzori

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I think maybe you need to go and read all the posts in the numerous threads. It is not Both sides, the Palestinian terrorists are the cause and this is exactly why some Arab states are blaming Ham A$$

Nah man! It's ALL A$$raels fault!
 
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