marine1
Honorary Master
in world politics, I would disagree.
Then how does Hamas get into power? Majority voted them in. Sorry I dont agree. Seems that the majority are the extremists.
Please enlighten me.
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Question of the Day: Main reasons you wouldn't get an EV?
The Middle East Conflict Thread
- Thread starter krycor
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marine1
Honorary Master
Well now that is what I have been eluding to. This is not about Zionism as the Arabs would have you believe. This is about hate, hate for Jews. Hate for Israel and what they have accomplished. It is a lot easier to blame Zionists as it gets the world to support them. Who would openly support them if they said it was aimed at Jews?
marine1
Honorary Master
So what would you call Islamic fanatics?
brilliantt
Well-Known Member
How is this for provocation: They supplied missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon, which immediately carried a cross-border raid and captured an Israeli soldier. This, of course sparked off the 2006 war. When Israel attacked, they, Hezbollah, spent all their missiles on Israeli cities. When their supply of missiles was depleted, the world pressurized Israel to agree to a very favourable ceasefire for Hezbollah. Now Iran has again supplied Hamas with missiles. In similar fashion Hamas called off the truce in order to use the supplied missiles. Israel is retaliating and everyone is putting pressure on them not to do so.
This would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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Ok. Lots of people in the West DO have an issue with this, even people who
are neutral in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Islam gets used a lot as a pretext by the militants, insurgents and terrorists
around the world - from 911/UK to Algeria to India/Kashmir to this conflict.
No other religion gets used as much and no other ideology gets used as much in recent years. There are many clerics who advocate violence towards enemies of the followers of Islam however, we do not see any significant response from
peace-loving Islamic clerics. Perhaps they are just bad at PR or maybe this does not get reported but if that's the case, could any of you guys politely
show us some recent condemnation of the abuse of Islam by the militants who kill claiming to kill in Allah's name. Please, politely do show it.
That is a key issue here. Many people are becoming tired of the noise many Islamists produce and the threats and fatwahs. On the other hand many people claim that Islam is a religion of peace. By those statements, there should hopefully be more condemnation and maybe peaceful guidance to
divert the attention of easily led militant youths away from what many are doing now.
So yes, please show some examples of condemnation from Islamic Clerics or leaders.
I'm asking this politely and with no emotion. I can understand marine1's feelings at seeing his people being attacked, however I'm not Jewish so please enlighten us on how the various communities are responding to this abuse of Islam and the murder which gets perpetrated in this abuse.
d0b33
Honorary Master
I don't support Hamas, but I certainly won't support a nation founded on ethnic cleansing.
I've been to Israel, visited Tel aviv(nice place) which was once a Palestinian port but most of the Arab identity has been wiped clean, those living there were forced to leave or be killed (ethnically cleansed).
...But you won't find this in your indoctrinat... I mean history books.
I've been to Israel, visited Tel aviv(nice place) which was once a Palestinian port but most of the Arab identity has been wiped clean, those living there were forced to leave or be killed (ethnically cleansed).
...But you won't find this in your indoctrinat... I mean history books.
I think the religious issue is just a great distraction of the issues at hand.
On the one had it gives terrorists an excellent way of getting in recruits to brainwash particularly when you have a Palestine reduced to a homeland. Activism is more heated when you make life for the ordinary citizens hard and Israel has perfected this. You have the entire population squeezed into two separate sections, infrastructure destroyed on a regular basis, border controls within your own country, aid controls and the blockades every so often.
Then to add insult to injury on the hill tops surrounding your miserable sorry existence you have the settlements which are in occupied lands and water costing twice as much to buy compared to settlements, yet the source of water is the same. You cannot expect people to sit back idly.
If you a nonwhite south african >35? yrs old you will find it hard to support the Israeli existence let alone a 2 state solution, after all the Israeli's are not even from the region pre 1948 except if you have a strong religious tie with zionists
On the other hand you have the Israeli camp where there is forced army service for your right to live there(not sure if this is enforced still). Many leave their home countries with a sense of both religious obligation/fulfillment and eagerness. Of cause when you get there you have a choice to live the safer areas with high costs or as a settler in occupied lands. Of cause they won't tell you its occupied territory and if you don't look down the hill and over the walls you would have little clue. The highway system, which links it all together makes things look quite secure. So when a bomb goes off, or there are rockets being hurled into your neighborhood your are justly annoyed.
Its always these people down the hill destroying your peaceful existence, I mean you paid for your land and just want to exist in peace.
In the end the media loves to get sensationalist and claim its a religious impasse, but its never really been. Btw German/hitler's holocaust was not the first time jews were pushed out of europe, its happen a few times before. The one immediately prior to that was in the middle ages .. no, not when the arabs took over europe ironically but when they lost it. You can go to, e.g. spain and you will find a LOT of depictions of this in their churches..
On the one had it gives terrorists an excellent way of getting in recruits to brainwash particularly when you have a Palestine reduced to a homeland. Activism is more heated when you make life for the ordinary citizens hard and Israel has perfected this. You have the entire population squeezed into two separate sections, infrastructure destroyed on a regular basis, border controls within your own country, aid controls and the blockades every so often.
Then to add insult to injury on the hill tops surrounding your miserable sorry existence you have the settlements which are in occupied lands and water costing twice as much to buy compared to settlements, yet the source of water is the same. You cannot expect people to sit back idly.
If you a nonwhite south african >35? yrs old you will find it hard to support the Israeli existence let alone a 2 state solution, after all the Israeli's are not even from the region pre 1948 except if you have a strong religious tie with zionists
On the other hand you have the Israeli camp where there is forced army service for your right to live there(not sure if this is enforced still). Many leave their home countries with a sense of both religious obligation/fulfillment and eagerness. Of cause when you get there you have a choice to live the safer areas with high costs or as a settler in occupied lands. Of cause they won't tell you its occupied territory and if you don't look down the hill and over the walls you would have little clue. The highway system, which links it all together makes things look quite secure. So when a bomb goes off, or there are rockets being hurled into your neighborhood your are justly annoyed.
Its always these people down the hill destroying your peaceful existence, I mean you paid for your land and just want to exist in peace.
In the end the media loves to get sensationalist and claim its a religious impasse, but its never really been. Btw German/hitler's holocaust was not the first time jews were pushed out of europe, its happen a few times before. The one immediately prior to that was in the middle ages .. no, not when the arabs took over europe ironically but when they lost it. You can go to, e.g. spain and you will find a LOT of depictions of this in their churches..
brilliantt
Well-Known Member
That is assuming that the US has no interest in seeing Iran destroyed. People forget that the US is the only country in the world that has used nuclear weapons. Look Iran is busy building or trying to build a nuclear weapon. They have repeatedly and openly called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth. They are openly supplying missiles to both Hamas and Hezbollah, which are used to attack Israel. They are busy ordering even more sophisticated missile systems from Russia.
All that the US and Israel need is proof that there is a bomb being built and the world will look on in horror, trust me.
marine1
Honorary Master
Tell me who was there first?
marine1
Honorary Master
What utter cr@p, I know what you are getting at and it is a lie.
Again with this propaganda. Jews were there before anyone else:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
"Evidence of a Jewish presence in Israel dates back 3,400 years, to the formation of the religion. The name "Jews" derives from their origin in Judah. Over the course of this long history, the Jews have several times been dispersed and then returned from exile, buttressed by the power and influence of their holy book, The Tanakh (the Old Testament)."
I suppose you going to say Israelis and not Jews??
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marine1
Honorary Master
Believe me, they know already. It is going to reach boiling point very soon.
Maybe we should all leave SA to it's original owners/inhabitants - San Tribe were the original inhabitants of South Africa.
I don't think you'll be getting any takers on this one Peter.
majikins
Active Member
1)does a mother love her child any differently because she is zulu, chinese, jewish?? I hope you get the basic point.
2)Case in point:
In the world's eyes, we are a laughing stock because of the political shana****ns of the ANC and COPE. It is well known in the last vote most people did not vote/were apathetic towards voting. Should you now be labelled and colored via the world's eyes because the ANC is in power?
3)Though not all the 'facts' are there and I can't quote my literature right now, have a look at this http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=40
All I am saying is, have a look at critism/the other side even if you believe its bull***** - it has a basis on an element of truth and helps you see all sides.
d0b33
Honorary Master
Maybe we should, so should those in the US and Ozzies etc...
That's not my point, my point is that those who have been ethnically cleansed and are fighting back have a right to return.
marine1
Honorary Master
Excellent post Peter.
marine1
Honorary Master
I dont think you know the meaning of ethnic cleansing. Go read up on what happened in Bosnia etc, that is ethnic cleansing
d0b33
Honorary Master
Google = cleric+condems
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/muslim-clerics-condemn-mumbai-attacks/394992/
Seriously, it's not that hard to find more.
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d0b33
Honorary Master
I dont think you know the meaning of ethnic cleansing. Go read up on what happened in Bosnia etc, that is ethnic cleansing
I am aware thanks...
daveza
Honorary Master
I really don't understand this thing about who was there first.
The issue is who is there now and how they can cohabit.
Who was there first is absolutely immaterial.
The issue is who is there now and how they can cohabit.
Who was there first is absolutely immaterial.