The Middle East Conflict Thread

It amazing how the palestinans cannot be trusted yet some forum memebers hang on every word of the Israelies. If what the Israelies say is true then the should have been 100s of rockets fired on Israel.

Think about it they bombed at leats 50 buildings by now (nobody knows ...or seems to care if these were actually housing rockets (Iraq and WMD anyone))

The idea that Israel cannot idescriminantly seize Palestinan land and break UN resolutions precludes it from arguing that its existance is based on a UN resolution. Come on you cannot jave ur bread buttered on both sides. The Israelie propganda machine is running day and night to spin this attack.
 
Xarog said:
Wrong. They have agreed to stop suicide bombings for the last few years.
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The only difference between the suicide attacks and the rockets is that nobody has to kill themselves for the rockets to work.

Both of these weapons systems are used to terrorize the civilian population.

So there is really no difference between them.
 
rwenzori said:
Actually you get quite a long way down the track. The originally agreed territory was illegally mandated, against the desires of those living on the land, against the wishes of ALL UN members in the area including ALL the Arab states, and Israel has illegally grabbed territory on several occasions since. To "do what you feel like" because you have a vast military might (supplied and paid for by another nation), has no moral or humanitarian grounding whatever. To do so with great cruelty and brutality has even less.
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Bull-Pukky! Israel was allocated a piece of land alongside the Palestinians. Ever since then they have been fighting for their survival against militant Arabs who want them dead. I say grab whatever land you can, and kick your enemies ass! Way to go! :D Your "humanitarian and moral grounding" can kiss my.... ;)

Your quote above is extremely biased and one-sided... as you have been all along. You are not an objective person by any stretch of the imagination. You may call yourself an atheist, but you clearly have a vested interest in the Muslim advancement of there is something you are not telling us.
 
aadil said:
Is there any point to debating these issues on this site? You can't really debate anything substantial before the thread gets closed, probably because they hurt someones feelings.

There are plenty of sites where these issues can be debated properly. I suggest you post there at one of them. I have.
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While the ideology that motivates the Hamarse and most other world wide terrorist attacks does more than just hurt feelings.

This same ideology was behind the recent Mumbai terrorist attacks, and bet your bottom dollar India will not leave it there, they'll go after those terrorists, and anyone pursuing terrorists has the moral high ground.

I suggest we post wherever we can to expose this vile ideology.
 
aperio said:
The past few days have seen more than 400 people, mostly civilians, dead in the Middle East. Yesterday Israeli terrorists killed a Palestinian leader and his whole family - including his wife, and children under 18.

Where does Israel get the money to fund all these killings? Who are the dark men behind the scenes providing the money and weapons?

The source of Israeli money
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According to the reports i have seen on the news 1/4 of the casualties have been civilian, but hamas don't wear uniforms so perhaps that figure could be less. I'm sure the Palestinian leader and his whole family didn't worry much when they were rocketing the Israeli terrorists (as you put it). Were they nieves enough to think they could rocket Southern Israel and there would be no consequences. Remember Hamas ended the peace treaty with Israel.
 
rwenzori said:
Actually you get quite a long way down the track. The originally agreed territory was illegally mandated, against the desires of those living on the land, against the wishes of ALL UN members in the area including ALL the Arab states, and Israel has illegally grabbed territory on several occasions since. To "do what you feel like" because you have a vast military might (supplied and paid for by another nation), has no moral or humanitarian grounding whatever. To do so with great cruelty and brutality has even less.
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The land was lost in a war they started (that being the Ottoman Empire, occupiers for almost a 1000 years in one form or another). That's how these things go. Germany lost Prussia to Poland, the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires were torn apart, many other colonies were lost.

The land was given to Israel legally by the United Nations resolution 181 and is a recognised state. A resolution cannot be passed without the majority backing of the UN General Assembly and the unanimous backing of the UN Security Council. Please explain how you suddenly feel this resolution was illegal and that it was not supported by ALL nations.

Jordan and Egypt were responsible for occupying, yes occupying, the West Bank and Gaza after they took them by military force in the Arab-Israeli war, a war started by the Arab states. They lost these in the 6-day war, again military force, started by Jordan and Egypt. Again I fail to understand how Israel illegally took this land, please explain.

Had the Arab states left Israel to its own affairs this situation may never have occurred. Its a case of Israel learning from the best and doing it better. The Arabs states have no one to blame but themselves for creating this situation.

You are severely misinformed about the events from 1947 onwards. You utterances about illegal land occupation is unfounded, please provide proof of your statements.
 
War is never right and sadly innocent people die

Israel has been taking a lot from the Palestinians over a few years.

It is kind of like the little kid hitting the biggest guy in the class and then complains when they get beaten up.

Their is a lot that we don't know about this current attack-It is not like Israel wanted to do this-it is a massive decision to enter war.

Hopefull a permanent cease fire will come around and hopefully soon.
 
the moron didn't expect he might actually be a target* gasp* and removed his family from his vicinity. Then again he used his own son as a suicide bomber
 
Agreed.

Israel has been under nearly ceaseless attacks for the last 60 years ... the list of wars are appalling ... but the fact remains that in nearly all of them the aggressor was another country.

The reason Israel has one of the deadliest armies in the world is not because of funding - but simply because they are defending a small country which is besieged on all sides by hostile neighbours.

Quite frankly - I believe Israel has the capacity to attack, take and hold any one of those countries if they felt like it - but they don't. And if their damn neighbours could just stop stirring the friggin pot, we could have had peace a long time ago.
 
timgaul said:
Please explain how you suddenly feel this resolution was illegal and that it was not supported by ALL nations.

....

You are severely misinformed about the events from 1947 onwards. You utterances about illegal land occupation is unfounded, please provide proof of your statements.
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The misinformed one is you - go look at the vote on the resolution, in a young and not representative UN. 30 countries plus 3 bullied ones voted for the resolution. No neighbouring countries did. The Arab organisations were ignored. The people occupying the land were not polled. Of course it is illegal.
 
shadowfox said:
The reason Israel has one of the deadliest armies in the world is not because of funding

Quite frankly - I believe Israel has the capacity to attack, take and hold any one of those countries if they felt like it - but they don't. And if their damn neighbours could just stop stirring the friggin pot, we could have had peace a long time ago.
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The reason Israel has one of the deadliest armies in the world is precisely because of funding.

Only by genocide. Would you support that?
 
Seems rwenzori has no idea the meaning of the word genocide :o
 
rwenzori said:
The misinformed one is you - go look at the vote on the resolution, in a young and not representative UN. 30 countries plus 3 bullied ones voted for the resolution. No neighbouring countries did. The Arab organisations were ignored. The people occupying the land were not polled. Of course it is illegal.
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Yes, not all states were included in the original UN. Why don't we ignore all UN resolutions for the last 60 years and wait for the world to fall apart. I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Resolution 181 was passed by a 56 member UN nations, approved by a vote of 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions.

The resolution was passed legally regardless of your feelings or beliefs about some "bullied nations". Israel is a recognised country in a UN consisting of 192 nations, including Arab states; if the mandate was illegal why would they recognise the country?

Furthermore, you never explained Egypt and Jordan's illegal occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. And their subsequent loss of these territories due to their illegal actions. Had they not interfered we might have peace today. Just convenient to forget certain truths?

Your personal feelings are all that are reflected here, I'm afraid. Your argument is exceptionally flawed. Your opinions are exceedingly biased to the point you overlook Arab atrocities and the part they played, in order to boost your own argument.
 
rwenzori said:
The reason Israel has one of the deadliest armies in the world is precisely because of funding.

Only by genocide. Would you support that?
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Targeting a militant terrorist organisation does not equal genocide, I'm afraid. Yet again your personal feelings ignore the simple facts.
 
rwenzori said:
The reason Israel has one of the deadliest armies in the world is precisely because of funding.

Only by genocide. Would you support that?
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The amount of funding Israel receives from the US is hardly enough to fund their entire military operation. It was mentioned in another thread (I'm not going to bother linking). $120 million US? Doesn't really sound like enough to fund an army.

Israel's economy is quite self-sufficient and capable - and the training their soldiers received is pretty much comparable to the training the old SADF had. Their weapons are produced locally rather than imported.
 
shadowfox said:
Their weapons are produced locally rather than imported.
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Thanks to an Israeli spy sending over classified US info on how to make them...
Kadish is a former employee of the U.S. Army’s Armament Research, Development, and Engineering Center at the Picatinny Arsenal in Dover, New Jersey ("the Arsenal"). On numerous occasions from about 1980 through 1985, Kadish provided classified documents relating to the U.S. military – including some relating to U.S. missile defense systems – to an agent of the Government of Israel, Yossi Yagur, who photographed the documents at Kadish’s residence.
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link
 
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