The Middle East Conflict Thread

[Xarog]

So its what 3 days? since Israel stopped its war in Gaza and guess what? Tunnels are in full swing again(arms and lots of civilian supplies too), the siege/blockade is still operating, and the aid for the Gaza strip is still trickling through as per usual. What the heck did Israel really achieve?

The only victory they can claim is the diplomatic agreement with the US on policing of international trade.

I wonder where all the people are who claimed in this thread that Hamas was going to be destroyed?

C'mon guys, raise your hands, no need to be shy...

 

[Xarog]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090119/ap_on_re_eu/eu_nuclear_israel_gaza

Depleted uranium?? They sure are asking for trouble

Pretty much par for the course for any ammo that comes from the US.

The real irony is that the US govt. sees fit to make ammo from DU (even though it pulverises on impact if it hits anything hard... like concrete), but at the same time they spread doom and gloom to US citizenry about "dirty bombs", of which the official definition is :

an improvised nuclear device, created from radioactive nuclear waste material and conventional explosives. When a dirty bomb is detonated the explosion carries the nuclear waste material into the atmosphere where it is subject to dispersal by wind and rain. The aim of the dirty bomb is to cause wide-spread contamination of the target area. If detonated in a city a well designed dirty bomb could cause panic, radiation-related illnesses (both long-term and short-term) and possibly the the abandonment or demolition of highly contaminated areas.

Hypocrites? Nhaaaaa....

 

[CyraxHB]

What the heck did Israel really achieve?

Well the rocket fire into israel has stopped so I'd say thats quite a good result.

 

[Xarog]

Well the rocket fire into israel has stopped so I'd say thats quite a good result.

Which was more or less the case before the invasion.

 

[Ghazi]

Well the rocket fire into israel has stopped so I'd say thats quite a good result.

Which is much the same as they achieved with Hezbollah.

The Hamas terrorists, just like Hezbollah, will of course claim victory, and Israel will enjoy a break in the rocket fire.

The conflict began when Hezbollah militants purposely fired rockets at Israeli border towns

Lebanese officials said about 12 civilians died in the day's fighting; Israel said it killed 26 militants, raising to about 230 the total number killed in the campaign.

Hezbollah had fired nearly 4,000 rockets into Northern Israel prior to kidnapping the soldiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

The strike hit the UN observation post in the southern Lebanese village of El Khiam, killing Canadian Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener and three others serving as unarmed UN military observers in the area.

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

 

[Xarog]

Which is much the same as they achieved with Hezbollah.

The Hamas terrorists, just like Hezbollah, will of course claim victory, and Israel will enjoy a break in the rocket fire.

Seriously, what planet are you from?

Hezbollah was not in the habit of firing rockets at Irsael before the invasion. Interesting to note, however, that Israel has broken the ceasefire agreements it has with Lebanon and violates Lebanese airspace on a daily basis. I'm sure, however, that should hostilities ever resume in Lebanon, that Israel will surely be blameless.

(P.S. what about the rockets that hit Israel which came from Lebanon over the last few weeks?)

 

[Vitowe]

I wonder where all the people are who claimed in this thread that Hamas was going to be destroyed?

C'mon guys, raise your hands, no need to be shy...

We weren't claiming, we were hoping. Israel is making a sad mistake agreeing to a truce with these scumbags. They should have flattened the place and everyone in it before pulling back.
Pity but that is the only way there will ever be an end to this conflict. You cannot reason or negotiate with fanatical terrorists.

BTW what ever happened to Adamr who had so much to say earlier? I answered his dumb question that he was so adamant about, 500 postings ago and have not heard from him since.
He and Xarog sprout the same brand of drivel, perhaps it's Xarogs shift for the next 1000 postings.
Two very sick fellows, these two. Trying to defend the indefensible.
And failing badly, overall.

 

[feo]

Israel is making a sad mistake agreeing to a truce with these scumbags. They should have flattened the place and everyone in it before pulling back.

No words for this..

 

[daveza]

They should have flattened the place and everyone in it before pulling back.

I'm sure the nazis had the same idea. It's called genocide and I'm afraid not even Israel would dare try it.

 

[Xarog]

We weren't claiming, we were hoping.

No, I definitely recall arrogant claims that Hamas' days were numbered.

Israel is making a sad mistake agreeing to a truce with these scumbags. They should have flattened the place and everyone in it before pulling back.
Pity but that is the only way there will ever be an end to this conflict. You cannot reason or negotiate with fanatical terrorists.

You know, you strike me as the most fanatical of the whole bunch.

BTW what ever happened to Adamr who had so much to say earlier? I answered his dumb question that he was so adamant about, 500 postings ago and have not heard from him since.
He and Xarog sprout the same brand of drivel, perhaps it's Xarogs shift for the next 1000 postings.
Two very sick fellows, these two. Trying to defend the indefensible.
And failing badly, overall.

Lol. If it's so indefensible, why don't you try refuting my claims. Oh, that's right, you can't, because all you do all day is spout ad-hominems and create arguments that have so many non-sequiturs, that anyone trying to read them feels like they just got stuck in a maze.

I'm sure the nazis had the same idea. It's called genocide and I'm afraid not even Israel would dare try it.

Does it invoke Godwins if you point out that someone really is advocating genocide?

 

[Generix]

So its what 3 days? since Israel stopped its war in Gaza and guess what? Tunnels are in full swing again(arms and lots of civilian supplies too), the siege/blockade is still operating, and the aid for the Gaza strip is still trickling through as per usual. What the heck did Israel really achieve?

The only victory they can claim is the diplomatic agreement with the US on policing of international trade.

Mark Regev must feel like a fool with all the video footage of him defending Israel and denying e.g. the use of white phosphorous categorically even

Interesting:

Obama plunges into Mideast

Jerusalem - President Barack Obama plunged straight into the Middle East conflict on his first day in office calling the Palestinian president on Wednesday after the last Israeli soldier withdrew from Gaza.

Obama assured Mahmud Abbas that he intended "to work with him as partners to establish a durable peace in the region", the Palestinian leader's spokesperson told AFP.

The new US leader told Abbas that the Palestinian president was the first foreign leader he called since taking office, said Nabil Abu Rudeina.

more here:
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2456861,00.html

 

[CyraxHB]

(P.S. what about the rockets that hit Israel which came from Lebanon over the last few weeks?)

And remember how quickly hezbollah denied they fired those rockets. Seems the attack on hezbollah in 2006 scared them a bit.

 

[Xarog]

And remember how quickly hezbollah denied they fired those rockets. Seems the attack on hezbollah in 2006 scared them a bit.

Highly unlikely. Hezbollah only mobilised a fraction of their forces in the last conflict (some 3 000 fighters if memory serves). The large majority of their bunker system was untouched by Israel because Hezbollah had successfully mislead Israel as to where they decided to dig themselves in. Furthermore they had managed to decrypt Israeli communications and knew exactly where and when Israel was going to strike. They were also so proficient at firing rockets and then moving out of the area that Israel honestly could not find them (which lead to the false claim that they were hiding in civilian areas).

By all accounts, Hezbollah was entirely capable of sustaining the conflict for many more months if the need arose. All attempts by Israel to cut off their supply lines or to even seriously dent Hezbollah's ability to wage war failed dramatically.

If you're really interested in it, I'll find some articles for you which gives a step-by-step breakdown of exactly how much of a bloody nose Hezbollah gave Israel.

 

[daveza]

I suspect that should Olmert try and call Obama out of a meeting Obama will very politely tell him to get stuffed.

Israel is going to find things are going to be rather different and more difficult in their dealings with the US.

The world is weary of thugs and bullies and Israels ad-nasuseum ' we are sorry about the dead children but its hamas' fault 'has reached its sell-by date. I really don't believe they will get away with it again - of course it's not yet clear whether they will get away with it this time.

PS: I'm still getting used to there being liberals from Benoni

 

[JHatman]

This thread has now been derailed and defeated by a mudkip.

 

[Ghazi]

And remember how quickly hezbollah denied they fired those rockets. Seems the attack on hezbollah in 2006 scared them a bit.

They're big mouth now, but rest assured they wont try their bull knowing that they'll get the big hammer response from Israel.

In 2006, Israel bombed targets inside Lebanon after Hezbollah attacked Israeli army patrols and captured two Israeli soldiers in a mission Hezbollah called "Truthful Promise". Hezbollah had fired nearly 4,000 rockets into Northern Israel prior to kidnapping the soldiers.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Rockets_fired_into_Israel_from_Lebanon

 

[Xarog]

They're big mouth now, but rest assured they wont try their bull knowing that they'll get the big hammer response from Israel.

Um, your wiki source is incorrect.

The rockets started after the kidnappings.

 

[CyraxHB]

Highly unlikely. Hezbollah only mobilised a fraction of their forces in the last conflict (some 3 000 fighters if memory serves). The large majority of their bunker system was untouched by Israel because Hezbollah had successfully mislead Israel as to where they decided to dig themselves in. Furthermore they had managed to decrypt Israeli communications and knew exactly where and when Israel was going to strike. They were also so proficient at firing rockets and then moving out of the area that Israel honestly could not find them (which lead to the false claim that they were hiding in civilian areas).

By all accounts, Hezbollah was entirely capable of sustaining the conflict for many more months if the need arose. All attempts by Israel to cut off their supply lines or to even seriously dent Hezbollah's ability to wage war failed dramatically.

If you're really interested in it, I'll find some articles for you which gives a step-by-step breakdown of exactly how much of a bloody nose Hezbollah gave Israel.

So you support another terrorist organisation too? And here I thought you were only interested in seeing the civilians in gaza safe.

These organisations usually love to claim responsibility for attacks on their enemies, even if they didnt actually do it. They see it as good for their propaganda campaigns. Lol, but they were so quick to deny it this time. The "shock & awe" tactics in gaza are paying dividends already.

 

[daveza]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057361.html

IDF probes improper use of phosphorus shells in Gaza Strip

By Amos Harel


The Israel Defense Forces is investigating whether a reserve paratroops brigade made improper use of phosphorus shells during the fighting in Gaza.

The brigade fired about 20 such shells in a built-up area of northern Gaza.


According to senior army officers, the IDF used two phosphorus-based weapons in Gaza. One, the sources said, actually contains almost no phosphorus. These are simple smoke bombs - 155mm artillery shells - with a trace of phosphorus to ignite them.

Alkalai's probe is thus focusing on the second type: phosphorus shells, either 81mm or 120mm, that are fired from mortar guns. About 200 such shells were fired during the recent fighting, and of these, according to the probe's initial findings, almost 180 were fired at orchards in which gunmen and rocket-launching crews were taking cover.

The one problematic incident was the reserve paratroops brigade that fired about 20 such shells in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya. Many international organizations say phosphorus shells should not be used in heavily populated areas. The brigade's officers, however, say the shells were fired only at places that had been positively identified as sources of enemy fire.

The 120mm shells, a recent acquisition, have a computerized targeting system attached to a GPS. Brigade commanders say they were very effective, but they were also responsible for two very serious mishaps: a strike on a UNRWA school that killed 42 Palestinians and a friendly fire incident that seriously wounded two officers.

Little by little the chickens are coming home to roost.

First was a denial that phosphorus bombs were even being used.

Then they were being used but not in built up areas.

Soldiers to be ' cloaked ' to prevent possible war crime identification ?

I wonder what other myths ( a polite word for lies ) are going to be revealed.

Human shields ?

Rockets launched from schools ?

Is there an image from the last conflict that confirms either of these two ?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[d0b33]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1057361.html

The IDF will "probe" as per usual but I won't hold my breath at the expected outcome.

They are also "probing" the case of children being shot.

A Palestinian father has claimed that he saw two of his young daughters shot dead and another critically injured by an Israeli soldier who emerged from a stationary tank and opened fire as the family obeyed an order from the Israeli forces to leave their home.

But looks like Graffiti in peoples homes is acceptable.

But most disturbing of all was the graffiti they daubed on the walls of the ground floor. Some was in Hebrew, but much was naively written in English: "Arabs need 2 die", "Die you all", "Make war not peace", "1 is down, 999,999 to go", and scrawled on an image of a gravestone the words: "Arabs 1948-2009".