The [Port Edward] Campaign Has Started....

[thedoc!]

Or maybe Vodacom planned the site to not give you coverage just to spite you - I know I would have cos I so love it when you get mad !

couldnt agree more!!

/doc

 

[ic]

Sheeshkebab, let's dig a trench now and bury all the sharp objects.

 

[TowerGuru]

Well ive just come back from the shops... and i can guesstimate the range on 3G from that Lighthouse is 2km. so im out of range by about a km. anyway Vodacom can boost the range of the Lighthouse???

Surely it is suppose to have a range greater than 2km???

and just a little side note: You guys will get the shock of your llives when you actually do get the chance to meet me. thats all im saying. im not at all who you think i am.

 

[thedoc!]

and just a little side note: You guys will get the shock of your llives when you actually do get the chance to meet me. thats all im saying. im not at all who you think i am.

No i doubt it, dont think you can be any scarier than I have imagined you to be, I used to be a profiler...!

/doc

 

[brad]

Well ive just come back from the shops... and i can guesstimate the range on 3G from that Lighthouse is 2km. so im out of range by about a km. anyway Vodacom can boost the range of the Lighthouse???

Surely it is suppose to have a range greater than 2km???

GayTechie (and others) - generally, the accepted distance for good performance on 3G is up to 3km, but that can vary quite considerably due to vegetation, topography, etc. It does not cover as far as GSM due to the higher frequency (2GHz compared to 900MHz). I will check on this and keep in touch via PM to see whether we can resolve the problem. I am aware of cases of people using 3G up to 12km from the site while others (like yourself) are less than 3km from the site and have little to no coverage (especially indoors).

 

[Prometheus]

O man, this just gets funnier and funnier every time.

Large area of Port Edward 3G coverage? my big fat hairy a**!!!!!!! im 3km from that lighthouse and i cant get coverage. that doesnt sound like a large area to me. youd think they would have checked what area they were covering when they installed it. and aviator i bet you couldnt make me cry. just come try.

Well ive just come back from the shops... and i can guesstimate the range on 3G from that Lighthouse is 2km. so im out of range by about a km. anyway Vodacom can boost the range of the Lighthouse???

Surely it is suppose to have a range greater than 2km???

and just a little side note: You guys will get the shock of your llives when you actually do get the chance to meet me. thats all im saying. im not at all who you think i am.

Just as I said from the start... you have a SH1TTY PHONE. I used 3G with netmonitor from 15km away until a site closer to home came up. Disappeared alot though.

Note true, Promethus. During June 2006, Vodacom launched 13 new sites into the Ndwedwe area north of Durban using a transmission backbone installed by Siemens. This was due to the expected delay for the same links from Telkom. This was only feasible because the links had to be routed back to the local Base Station Controller at Stanger. This has been an ongoing practice for some time now where it has been feasible to commission a site using temporary links while waiting for Telkom delivery.

With all the 3G sites, and due to the fact that this is a new, growing network, the only "Base Station Controllers" (called RNC's in 3G) are located in Durban. This would mean installing a dedicated link from Vryheid all the way back to Durban - not feasible. As the 3G network expands, there will be additional RNC's installed at more remote locations which will make the installation of temporary links feasible for new 3G sites. Alternative plans are being implemented to try and alleviate these link delays prior to the installation of these remote RNC's.

If this is so then why hasn't V3g mentioned anything about it when asked. Not only that, but he said (or was it someone else?) when I came up with the idea, that building the network in such a way is not feasible and you have to build a complete network. And why go through the expense of setting up a temporary link and waste all that labour when for a little extra you could just as well put up a permanent link.

The issue with the RNC makes no sense to me. It's the main component in the UMTS (3G/HSDPA) network and controls all the base stations connected to it. Firstly a UMTS node (base station) must have access to one in order to function. So a node has to be connected to one and if the only ones are in Durban then connections have to be installed to them anyway even if it is 1000km away. Secondly I don't see it having anything to do with data transmission except for packet scheduling which isn't responsible for the actual transmission. It also doesn't hold up for data transmitted over GSM which would imply that data can be sent to and from nodes without the link being connected to a RNC with the nodes already connected to a RNC. And lastly how would Telkom be able to install a dedicated link if Vodacom can't do it without routing it to a RNC.
Sorry, but something still smells fishy here.

 

[TowerGuru]

isnt v3g good enough for you prom? now u have to flirt with brad? why cant you argue about RNC's in another thread? further your agenda somewhere else. thanks.

 

[thedoc!]

GT - Quoting V3g here...Your tact and finesse just continues to impress!!

/doc

 

[brad]

If this is so then why hasn't V3g mentioned anything about it when asked. Not only that, but he said (or was it someone else?) when I came up with the idea, that building the network in such a way is not feasible and you have to build a complete network. And why go through the expense of setting up a temporary link and waste all that labour when for a little extra you could just as well put up a permanent link


The issue with the RNC makes no sense to me. It's the main component in the UMTS (3G/HSDPA) network and controls all the base stations connected to it. Firstly a UMTS node (base station) must have access to one in order to function. So a node has to be connected to one and if the only ones are in Durban then connections have to be installed to them anyway even if it is 1000km away. Secondly I don't see it having anything to do with data transmission except for packet scheduling which isn't responsible for the actual transmission. It also doesn't hold up for data transmitted over GSM which would imply that data can be sent to and from nodes without the link being connected to a RNC with the nodes already connected to a RNC. And lastly how would Telkom be able to install a dedicated link if Vodacom can't do it without routing it to a RNC.
Sorry, but something still smells fishy here.

Prometheus, I probably should have mentioned that the temporary links I was referring to were for 2G sites - as such, V3g was probably unaware of them. On the 2G network, Vodacom has BSC's (2G equivalent of the RNC) in numerous remote locations like Stanger, Newcastle, Harrismith, Empangeni, etc. This is done to reduce the backhaul requirement because numerous links can be combined into larger links back to the centrally located MSC's (exchanges) in Durban where the actual call routing takes place. As such, the temporary links used on the 2G network are "short haul small capacity links" to the closest BSC - normally a distance of under 30km and achievable in a single radio hop and with limited capacity (up to 4 x E1's).

I did not mean that a connection to the RNC was not required. CC3G suggested putting a short haul link to one of the existing 2 3G sites in Vryheid (which have existing links all the way to the RNC in Durban) and sharing their link. Thus my point about reducing throughput, etc. - traffic from 2 sites on 1 x E1. Telkom already have these huge capacity links from areas like Vryheid back to the RNC's which are in Durban whereas it would be extremely costly for Vodacom to provide a multi-hop link all the way from Vryheid to Durban for 1 or 2 sites.

Believe me when I say that all options have been investigated and maybe I am just not getting the picture across with my explanations - I hope this explanation is slightly clearer. Vodacom would definitely rather have the site on air and making money than a VERY expensive piece of equipment (Node-B) sitting around on site and waiting for a link to commission it. The site in question (Vryheid High), and others around KZN and other parts of SA, are COMPLETELY equipped and ready for commercial operation as soon as the links are delivered.

 

[vodacom3g]

Prometheus, I probably should have mentioned that the temporary links I was referring to were for 2G sites - as such, V3g was probably unaware of them.

Very aware of the links we're putting in.

It's one thing putting in a link here and there to fix a problem, (or to provide direct-connect) but completely a different animal to build your own transmission network which is what we discussed here.

Even where we do put in a microwave or other link, you still need to connect up to Telkom at some point and often still have a capacity issue.

But Brad put it well; (Even though we're not very good at designing and rolling out networks and need Prometheus to design them for us,) not even Vodacom would be so stupid to spend hundreds of thousands on a site and not consider connectivity or all the revenue slipping away by not bringing it on-line.

 

[Bundy2005]

G.T and Brad

Hi Brad Gay T when you say your 2/3 km away from the lighthouse are you on the back of a hill,or in a ditch.I know you said you live on the beach but i know that area is a nightmare when it comes to signal and all its ups and downs.

 

[Bundy2005]

or maybe that Sony ericsson V600 needs a software upgrade!

We now have the K800 hmmmmmmm

 

[thedoc!]

Hi Brad Gay T when you say your 2/3 km away from the lighthouse are you on the back of a hill,or in a ditch.I know you said you live on the beach but i know that area is a nightmare when it comes to signal and all its ups and downs.

You're asking for trouble now from our wanna be celebrity GT...

 

[Bundy2005]

By ups and downs i mean the hills and ditch's, just to clear that one.

 

[vodacom3g]

You don't want to drive the wrong point home.....

 

[thedoc!]

V3g - Just sent you a PM..

/doc

 

[TowerGuru]

there are no hills/moutains/giant mansions in the way i assure you of that! and im not due for an upgrade until 2008. so if you would like to upgrade me now Bundy 2005 i wouldnt have a problem with that.

 

[Prometheus]

isnt v3g good enough for you prom? now u have to flirt with brad? why cant you argue about RNC's in another thread? further your agenda somewhere else. thanks.

No thanks. This is a perfectly good place for it.

As for:

there are no hills/moutains/giant mansions in the way i assure you of that! and im not due for an upgrade until 2008. so if you would like to upgrade me now Bundy 2005 i wouldnt have a problem with that.

Instead of jumping on to a high horse read the posts more carefully next time:

or maybe that Sony ericsson V600 needs a software upgrade!

We now have the K800 hmmmmmmm

 

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, I probably should have mentioned that the temporary links I was referring to were for 2G sites - as such, V3g was probably unaware of them. On the 2G network, Vodacom has BSC's (2G equivalent of the RNC) in numerous remote locations like Stanger, Newcastle, Harrismith, Empangeni, etc. This is done to reduce the backhaul requirement because numerous links can be combined into larger links back to the centrally located MSC's (exchanges) in Durban where the actual call routing takes place. As such, the temporary links used on the 2G network are "short haul small capacity links" to the closest BSC - normally a distance of under 30km and achievable in a single radio hop and with limited capacity (up to 4 x E1's).

I did not mean that a connection to the RNC was not required. CC3G suggested putting a short haul link to one of the existing 2 3G sites in Vryheid (which have existing links all the way to the RNC in Durban) and sharing their link. Thus my point about reducing throughput, etc. - traffic from 2 sites on 1 x E1. Telkom already have these huge capacity links from areas like Vryheid back to the RNC's which are in Durban whereas it would be extremely costly for Vodacom to provide a multi-hop link all the way from Vryheid to Durban for 1 or 2 sites.

Believe me when I say that all options have been investigated and maybe I am just not getting the picture across with my explanations - I hope this explanation is slightly clearer. Vodacom would definitely rather have the site on air and making money than a VERY expensive piece of equipment (Node-B) sitting around on site and waiting for a link to commission it. The site in question (Vryheid High), and others around KZN and other parts of SA, are COMPLETELY equipped and ready for commercial operation as soon as the links are delivered.

Ok, get what you're saying here. From what I can gather the BSC and RNC is basically the equipment which connects Vodacom's network of towers to their internal network that handles all the data for the network. It doesn't make my reasoning any different however. The network still functions the same way. Nodes are connected over short distances to a backbone which in turns connects to the central network.

The original topic was why Vodacom is not connecting their towers to the central system or to a backbone instead of using Telkom to do it for them. Something which Vodacom does seem to be doing in a very limited fashion. When I suggested it however my idea was shot down right away as being unfeasible and impossible to implement and it was said that I don't have any idea how a network works. I was told that Vodacom would have to build their entire network from scratch (something which they should be doing anyway) and when I suggested that I was met with sarcasm that it would cost another R3BN was it V3g? and that the cost would then have to be recovered from users such as myself. Well, I have since learned that R3BN is pocket change when the 3 networks made in excess of R40BN last year with Vodacom getting by far the largest share of that.

I refuse to take this crap from a company which has screwed its subscribers over the years and still continue to do so. Let them drop a couple of those rugby and soccer sponsorships to pay for the upgrade or even the wrestling and let etv pay for it like they should. None of us are interested in all of that, we want affordable communication. Look at what the municipalities like Eastern Johannesburg are doing Vodacom and start following since you are apparently unable to lead.

But Brad put it well; (Even though we're not very good at designing and rolling out networks and need Prometheus to design them for us,) not even Vodacom would be so stupid to spend hundreds of thousands on a site and not consider connectivity or all the revenue slipping away by not bringing it on-line.

Never said any of that, only that Vodacom should stop being so reliant on Telkom and start to provide for themself like a lot of companies want to do. They don't have much of a choice legally though, but Vodacom DOES! I would also like to hear from MTN_Data_Dude what they have been doing. They have a smaller budget though and I won't bring Cell-C into this since they are still in the phase of rolling out base stations.

 

[vodacom3g]

Prom, I've asked for the Network Planning guys to create a position for you and it's all in place. When can you start? Best way for you to understand the whole network environment is to jump in !