The problem with uncapped mindset in SA

[mika1000]

Uncapped means exactly that - uncapped. Not 10, 50, 200gb or 1 Tb. Or a 10 or 15 day rollover. That's capped, and stay capped.

It's like everything else in our country. We are so used to everything sub-standard. Like government, or lack there of. Or poor service delivery. Bad roads. All sub-standard. That's our mindset!

Electronics and technology, we became the dumping ground of the world's junk.

Why must we be satisfied with it? It's time to put our feet down, and demand what we pay for. Whether it's uncapped internet or good roads. Decent government. Decent everything.

 

[ponder]

and which provider/package might that be?

aren't you on an after-hours only uncapped from openweb?

Why are you questioning us now? What I use or do not use is really non of your business. I'm on a 24/7 uncapped & unshaped package and that's that.

You are in the minority mate. Really, WhoTF needs more than 200 gigs a month?

That is not the point! The point is you cannot lie about a product you are selling. Who are you to tell me what I need or do not need in a month? If I want to watch streaming HD content every day or download 200 linux isos a day it really is non of your frigging businnes and really has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is FALSE ADVERTISING.

The mentality here is really scary

 

[LancelotSA]

OK, we're all adults here. There is no need to go all potty mouth to try and make your point. Take a deep breath and try and say it like an adult. There are plenty of reasons why people would need a true uncapped product. Just because you have your preferences does not mean everybody should be forced into your little mould.

Well then go out and find yourself and product that has no fair use policy and pay for it. I am totally satisfied with a fair use policy and would be happier if it was even lower, like 100Gb, as it means that what I am paying is not having to subsidise the extremely heavy data users out there.

If they are going to go to that length to clearly define things... then why not go the whole way and call the product what it is... a High cap limit product. is that really too much to ask and too difficult to do? There are many countries in the world that have true uncapped internet. I have a friend in Switzerland who has 50 mbps internet with no limits whatsoever. Some countries are more honest with their internet. How many Gb a month do you think that users in Japan who have a 1 Gigabit per second are using? They can download 200 gigs in a few hours. They would laugh at a pathetic 200 Gb cap.

I also know of some international ISPs who sold uncapped, limitless products yet they are now imposing fair use limits, or in some cases caps, on their services.....

As for the last line, the chap on Moneyweb said it best : "Think back to 2008, or even last year. If someone had told you we'd be able to buy cheap uncapped broadband access, you'd have laughed. And don't get on the "this-is-not-cheap-because-I-pay-two-pounds-in-the-UK-and-my-broadband-connection-does-my-laundry" train. Uncapped 512kbps ADSL at R599 per month (line rental included) may not strictly be "cheap", but it's a helluva lot more affordable than it was last month."

Actually, you are wrong. They are not paying per Gig. They are paying for a set speed. They can quite easily let people use uncapped as long as they can keep within the speed limit. That's what the contention ratios are all about. South Africans are just used to being told what to do when it comes to our internet...we take it like good little sheep. And your post is proof of that.

It is actually quite interesting that you mention contention ratios as this way of selling means that a download whore directly affects the other users on his portion of the pipe. If you had a number of download whores on the same bit of "highway" it would be unusable. Of course most download whores base their entire argument on the fact that they don't care as long as they personally are ok. So they want full speed and screw everyone else that is "sharing" with them.

I'm already using one of those other products and I will be staying with it. Because I can see this product is a sham and will not give me what it claims to give me.

Great, so you already have followed the advice recommended earlier. The fact that you aren't using this product will mean that it can continue offering what the rest of us are hoping for. I only use about 40Gb per month at a push. With these new offers I can maybe get up to 80Gb at less cost than I am currently expending without worrying about my data and keeping an eye on where I stand. This service is PERFECT for me! The fact that it means not subsidising someone else makes it even more appealing. This is a reason I'd never go for the Axxess offering!

 

[Paulr]

I'm very happy with the fact that for R10 a month more I can go from a 3/27 IS account to a "lot more" account on my little 384 line. Doubt I'll ever exceed 10gigs a month.....

 

[Bona Botse]

Why are you questioning us now? What I use or do not use is really non of your business. I'm on a 24/7 uncapped & unshaped package and that's that.

hao, why are you getting defensive? it was a simple question...

 

[SliverZA]

OK, we're all adults here. There is no need to go all potty mouth to try and make your point. Take a deep breath and try and say it like an adult. There are plenty of reasons why people would need a true uncapped product. Just because you have your preferences does not mean everybody should be forced into your little mould.

Yes we are all adults here yet 90% of the views posted come across as childish, ludicrous and extremely uneducated, if you look through some of the comments you can probably understand my somewhat childish but fitting opening statement.

If they are going to go to that length to clearly define things... then why not go the whole way and call the product what it is... a High cap limit product. is that really too much to ask and too difficult to do? There are many countries in the world that have true uncapped internet. I have a friend in Switzerland who has 50 mbps internet with no limits whatsoever. Some countries are more honest with their internet. How many Gb a month do you think that users in Japan who have a 1 Gigabit per second are using? They can download 200 gigs in a few hours. They would laugh at a pathetic 200 Gb cap.

The fact that 98% of consumers would never reach 50% of 200Gb has nothing to do with the statement of "uncapped". For the vast majority this is an "uncapped" product, again I believe the 200gb limit has been badly worded as a "cap" and should be more along the lines of an abuse limit or guide line.

I am not arguing the fact that some people may need a true uncapped product but you surely cannot expect this for the price that is being advertising. I can see how the statements of some providers are slightly misleading but they are by no means being unreasonable with the AUP.

Actually, you are wrong. They are not paying per Gig. They are paying for a set speed. They can quite easily let people use uncapped as long as they can keep within the speed limit. That's what the contention ratios are all about. South Africans are just used to being told what to do when it comes to our internet...we take it like good little sheep. And your post is proof of that.

In one way or another there is a cost per Gb. Wheter this is through paying per Gb to Telkom or paying the exorbatant IPC fee's and the corresponding ATM fee's to get the data transited onto your own network for breakout. One way or another there is a cost attached. 200Gb works out to the region of R3 per Gb at the prices currently being advertised, nobody can deny that this is an extremely low rate considering current per Gb rates or the costs of having a IPC.

 

[RogueRunner]

Guys, it's fair usage and used all over the world!! It's not a cap. Pretty sure this only comes into play if you do more than 200GB month after month after month. I cannot even begin to comprehend how you can do this every month?!?!? It will most definitely not be legal content for starters and even as it may, there is only so much you can watch/play each month!

 

[Rodent-Boy]

@Lancelot, did you bother reading any of the thread? No one is debating whether 200GB is fair usage. The debate is whether 200GB is uncapped. I think not.

 

[LancelotSA]

Uncapped means exactly that - uncapped. Not 10, 50, 200gb or 1 Tb. Or a 10 or 15 day rollover. That's capped, and stay capped.

It's like everything else in our country. We are so used to everything sub-standard. Like government, or lack there of. Or poor service delivery. Bad roads. All sub-standard. That's our mindset!

Electronics and technology, we became the dumping ground of the world's junk.

Why must we be satisfied with it? It's time to put our feet down, and demand what we pay for. Whether it's uncapped internet or good roads. Decent government. Decent everything.

Oh really...... care to explain this :

Could this be a South African company? Oh, wait, what are these prices? Pounds? Could this be the UK?

Maybe do a little research before bashing this "sub standard" country of ours! This is one example. I am sure I can find many more if you'd like me to! And they don't even say "uncapped" but call it "unlimited"!

 

[LazyLion]

Did I tell anybody in this thread not to use this product? No
Did I advise anyone here to rape it for all they are worth? No
Do I think it is great value for money? Yes
Do I think it is a revolutionary advancement in SA Telecomms? Yes
Do I wish that they would have been a little bit more honest with their wording and Product definition? Yes

That's all I'm saying. Is that so hard to understand?
If I had to get this product for myself do I think I could restrict myself to less than 200 Gb a month? Yes, because I am aware that there is a limit (having read the T&C).
Are there other users out there in South Africa who might not have read the T&C? Yes
Are they on for a surprise when they get a nasty letter end of next month from Afrihost telling them they have "abused" their uncapped service? Yes
Will they go WTF? when they get said nasty letter? You betcha!

Anyways... this is all irrelevant debate. The advertising standards authority has already ruled that "uncapped" means "unlimited". So it is just a matter of time until Afrihost removes the specified limit or changes the product name to comply with advertising standards.

 

[Mars]

Oh really...... care to explain this :

Could this be a South African company? Oh, wait, what are these prices? Pounds? Could this be the UK?

Maybe do a little research before bashing this "sub standard" country of ours! This is one example. I am sure I can find many more if you'd like me to! And they don't even say "uncapped" but call it "unlimited"!

Ok.... um. where do you see 200 gig in those fair usage policy's? The after hours thing I can understand, even respect. I have no problem with that, I can easily download the stuff I want after hours. The only thing in there regarding quantity refers to heavy usage. Quite a few of my friends in London download easily in excess of 600 gigs a month. Only one has ever gotten a call from virgin because he was using too much and he was doing 2+ terabytes a month (uploading torrents). The call center person told him to keep it under a terabyte to avoid notice. He pays about 8 pounds for his 16mg line. So the heavy user in Europe is nothing like here.

 

[LancelotSA]

Ok.... um. where do you see 200 gig in those fair usage policy's? The after hours thing I can understand, even respect. I have no problem with that, I can easily download the stuff I want after hours. The only thing in there regarding quantity refers to heavy usage. Quite a few of my friends in London download easily in excess of 600 gigs a month. Only one has ever gotten a call from virgin because he was using too much and he was doing 2+ terabytes a month (uploading torrents). The call center person told him to keep it under a terabyte to avoid notice. He pays about 8 pounds for his 16mg line. So the heavy user in Europe is nothing like here.

You right, I don't see 200Gbs mentioned anywhere... I do see a 30Gb monthly limit between 8am and 12pm, seven days a week! (Did you miss that part?) But of course I would expect someone to argue that there is nothing wrong with those limitations as it is not South African so it must be good!

And as stated, that was just one example. You want another one :

Why does Vodafone apply a Fair Usage Policy?

In order to ensure the quality of the ADSL service to our customers and to guarantee that the majority of the customers are not negatively impacted by the misuse of the service by the minority of the customers; a fair usage policy is applied to our ADSL service.

How does the Fair Usage Policy work?

Vodafone has set a specific quota for the customers, which will make sure that the network will never be loaded with the extra usage from the customers who misuse the service, and at the same time will guarantee the service continuity to them. After exceeding the quota set, the speed will automatically drop till the end of the month. The speed will go back to normal at the beginning of the new month.

What is the Fair Usage Policy quota for the different speeds?

• 25 GB for 512 kbps speed, then speed drops to 128 Kbps

• 40 GB for 1 Mbps speed, then speed drops to 128 Kbps
• 60 GB for 2 Mbps speed, then speed drops to 128 Kbps
• 120 GB for 8 Mbps speed, then speed drops to 128 Kbps

http://www.vodafone.com.eg/en/Personal/InternetEmail/FairUsagepolicy/index.htm

 

[LancelotSA]

Anyways... this is all irrelevant debate. The advertising standards authority has already ruled that "uncapped" means "unlimited". So it is just a matter of time until Afrihost removes the specified limit or changes the product name to comply with advertising standards.

So we can conclude that things are actually superior in this country as we have standards that make sense and get enforced? The example from the UK clearly shows the use of the word "unlimited". People need to open their eyes before just blindly bashing everything in this country. It makes them look like tits (and this was obviously not you saying these things, Gary)

 

[The_Unbeliever]

heh... we're all rabid supporters of AfriHost

@gary - I now understand what you're trying to do... have sent Gian a tweet so that he can have a shufty at this thread.

Hopefully they'll change the wording.

At least we had a lekker good debate without any flames

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ok.... um. where do you see 200 gig in those fair usage policy's? The after hours thing I can understand, even respect. I have no problem with that, I can easily download the stuff I want after hours.

Maybe read it again, in all respects it's even worse! You only get 30GB as part of their FUP. And for them peak time is considered 8am - midnight, 7 days a week. So unless you intend to use your connection between 12am-8am, 7 days a week, it's a pointless argument.

 

[louiss]

*edit wrong thread

 

[Browser]

Uncapped means there is no cap on the line - as long as you adhere to the T&C and fair usage policies.

Sorry but I think that's wrong and so does the ASA. T&C or fair use does not give them to right to advertise something as something it isn't, period. This exact thing has been through the ASA before and the ISP was forced to stop advertising or calling that service uncapped even after they moaned, gave excuses and pointed to their T&C and fair use policy.

There is no middle ground here, it either is or is not uncapped, 200Gb or 1000Gb is not uncapped, if that's the limit they should advertise it as such so someone else can reap the benefits when they advertise their uncapped service, which isn't capped at all letalone at 200Gb etc.

It will only take 1 person to get cut off due to heavy usage and they can go to the ASA which will, as with the other ISP in a past complaint, force them to stop advertising it as uncapped. Doing so isn't just about nitpicking, again, it's so that a ISP that advertises a service as uncapped and doesn't cap it or otherwise stop you can reap the benefits they deserve by proving what they advertise.

200Gb etc does not equal uncapped.

 

[phoneJunky]

Hmm, this is difficult.

So would the people that say this isn't uncapped be satisfied with being throttled after a certain amount of GBs? Then it would still be uncapped, but the line speed will just change. So is 4Mbps uncapped upto 200GB and then throttled to 128Kbps uncapped?

Personally I think this would qualify as uncapped, because then you are uncapped, just throttled after a while.

 

[Afrihost-Gian]

First of all thank you for all the comments - I promise that
we are listening and your feedback helps us to improve our
service further.

I'd like to address the issue of Uncapped and Fair Usage
policy as I can see it has led to some healthy debate!

At the prices that uncapped products are being sold at now
it is absolutely critical for any ISP offering these services to
have a fair usage policy.

Quite simply without a clear, enforced fair usage policy no-
one would be able to offer these uncapped services at
anywhere even vaguely near the prices they are being
offered now.

The reason is simple and is based on Pareto's Law (also
known as the 80/20 principle) In this specific situation literally
1 - 2 % of the users would account for 70% of the overall
traffic and they would have a real affect on slowing the network
down and affecting the experience of all the other users.

In fact to be honest it's not the actual total GBs that are
downloaded that are the problem - It's the bandwidth that
is utilised at any one time in a given month to enable a person
to download a large amount of GBs.

The bandwidth pipe is a finite resource and if 2% of your users
are taking up 70% of the finite resource this is going to lead to
a noticeable degradation of service to your other 98% of your clients.

You can see how this affected the smaller networks of Screamer
and DigiChilli once many people had subscribed to their service.

As the bandwidth capacity in South Africa grows this will become
less and less of a problem but right now it is a very real challenge
for ISP's to overcome to be able to offer this uncapped service.

Thus at the moment every ISP will have to deal with heavy users
in some way.

We have chosen to be as transparent as possible with how we
are going to deal with users who flout our fair usage policy.

Let me state clearly here that the 200GBs is not a cap. If you
reach 200GBs usage in one month we will not cut your account
off. Your account is thus uncapped.

What we will do is investigate the usage of your account get in
contact with you and try to work out the best way forward with you.

As we have stated this uncapped solution has been designed for
a real person sitting behind his computer, reading emails, surfing
Facebook, uploading photos, watching YouTube, listening to
streaming radio and downloading via newsgroups & torrents if
the whim takes them.

It is not designed for automated downloads that are set up to
download 24/7, 30 days a month. If that is what you are planning
to do then this is not the solution for you.

So the question then is, are we being misleading or dishonest in
our marketing?

I sincerely believe that we are not being dishonest. In fact I
believe that we have been as honest, open and transparent as
we can be so as to ensure that there are no misunderstandings
that flare up and cause animosity later.

I'd rather be upfront from the beginning than hide behind a fair
usage policy later.

The simple fact is that we will not cap these accounts at 200GBs.

What we reserve the right to do is to not provide a service to a
client who we feel is putting strain on the network and hence
affecting our other clients enjoyment and quality of the service.

I am in fact going to go and rewrite the explanation on our website
now and try and be clearer as to what our fair usage policy is as
there does seem to be confusion as to what exactly this means.

Thanks for all of your feedback and I hope this helps.

I wish you well in deciding which company's uncapped solution is
the best for your needs.

All the best!

 

[jay-co]

and there gian sets the record straight.