The R89 billion broadband question

Paul_S said:
So we're going to create 160,000 TEMPORARY new jobs by spending lots of money?
Sounds like the World Cup stadium construction.

As much as I like the idea of better telecommunications for everyone, I think there are far better places to invest money such as the education system.
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South Africa already invests the highest percentage of GDP (compared to other countries) to education, and we still dont have the desired outcome education wise. So I do agree with the education portion, but somewhere we have to draw the line.

Problem is that in order to really achieve growth we have to become more technology orientated. Kenya is following that policy and they are growing very very well. So we need the infrastructure to communicate, otherwise getting the tool (whether its pc, phone etc) is not going to be of much use.

Also what happened to rolling out computers and internet to all schools? What happened to that government program?
 
This is ground hog day/back to the future.

Telkom had a monopoly for so long because they were mandated to serve rural areas which they ended up not doing.
The end result is that we had to pay over inflated prices.

Rather focus on bringing SA up to scratch with the rest of the world so that we can be competitive.
 
Nefertiti said:
South Africa already invests the highest percentage of GDP (compared to other countries) to education, and we still dont have the desired outcome education wise. So I do agree with the education portion, but somewhere we have to draw the line.

Problem is that in order to really achieve growth we have to become more technology orientated. Kenya is following that policy and they are growing very very well. So we need the infrastructure to communicate, otherwise getting the tool (whether its pc, phone etc) is not going to be of much use.

Also what happened to rolling out computers and internet to all schools? What happened to that government program?
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Agreed. It is absolutely imperative for our economic growth, and survival, for broadband internet to become ubiquitous in this country. The cost is merely a drop in the bucket compared to the economic advantages that will be gained.
 
A mere R89 billion to destroy the entire private ISP industry in South Africa. It sounds cheap at the price. ISPs are already virtually squeezed out of existence by Telkom's dominance. They will have no future if the state insists on taking over the supply of all broadband, at its usual, maximum level of inefficiency. This works out to a subsidy of about R20k per taxpayer for something that's likely to be late, inefficient, and probably out of date by the time it's done. Please stop this state capitalism - we're not China.
 
Pule is living in a dream world. No way Pravin will give her this money. Way too many gaps to be filled at this time. She should stick to being an enabler. LLU should be the start.
 
It seems like their message is getting through. What they are saying is that it is not possible to roll out 100 percent coverage of broadband. However, it is very possible: Cell c rolled out hspa to two thirds at only 5 billion and still managed to make a profit. Why can't they roll out 100 percent at 30 billion and make a profit too? Why bother about fibre? Leave it to private companies.
 
If 2 mil people have internet and pay for argument sake pay R100 per month. That is R200 mil per month back per month. Multiply that with 36 months you get to R7 200 mil in 3 years time! Obviously we pay more than that, so, if everyone gets off their trains and buts, we can see this trough!
 
With regard to pc penetration, android 3 has full Usb support, making Usb keyboards and nice possible. With tablet prices as cheap as they are now, if the government really wanted to subsidize this, they could. At half a grand each tablet, ten million tablets would cost only 5 billion, so the problem is not as insurmountable as it may seem at first.
 
Wise Words

entrepr said:
Keep your billions - if anything they will end up in the wrong hands. Just free the market with good policies, stronger regulation and decisive (but wise) action on spectrum allocation and you've got your penetration right there. We South Africans are a clever bunch and if you get the boot heel off our necks from the big players we will give you your broadband, stimulate the economy and create jobs for you sooner than you can imagine or plan.
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These words from the forumite ( entrepr ) are very Appropriate and full of meaning,

I will take the time to expand on this in an e-mail and forward onto Ms. Dina Pule.

Well written reply.

DXL - Team
 
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entrepr said:
Keep your billions - if anything they will end up in the wrong hands. Just free the market with good policies, stronger regulation and decisive (but wise) action on spectrum allocation and you've got your penetration right there. We South Africans are a clever bunch and if you get the boot heel off our necks from the big players we will give you your broadband, stimulate the economy and create jobs for you sooner than you can imagine or plan.
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So true. Do only a backbone (Broadband Infraco?) and leave the rest to the private sector. But relax the licensing requirements and ensure that there will be spectrum available for the small business.
 
Viva said:
Does this R60-89 billion include computers for 100% of South Africa's citizens? If not, what will 100% broadband penetration help?
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This is by 2020. By then, the penetration of devices able to consume broadband will be far far higher.

Viva said:
Isn't this whole thing a bit of a joke in a country like South Africa? People don't have food or houses. How can the DoC be serious? I can't imagine SA can afford a project like this, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't help the majority of the population as their needs lies at a whole different level.
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That's irrelevant. It's a long-term view, and this is the Department of COMMUNICATIONS making an announcement. If you want to see what the plans are for getting houses and food to those people, there are probably sites/forums for you to follow that. DoC has a job - get everyone connected - they should at least try. I believe if you build it, they will come. If someone living in a 1-room shack had a crappy old PC running Win98 (not ME, that's just cruel) and had a decent internet connection, I feel it would put them miles ahead of the same person without connectivity. They can hunt for jobs, send CVs out, pay bills online, communicate with anyone else in the country (cos they're all connected), find out what that growth on their neck actually is instead of going to a witchdoctor and being fed mercury. Information is power.

Just because the housing department can't do their job, doesn't mean the DoC should drop everything they're doing and go help them out.
 
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zamicro said:
So true. Do only a backbone (Broadband Infraco?) and leave the rest to the private sector. But relax the licensing requirements and ensure that there will be spectrum available for the small business.
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The problem with letting the private sector do the last mile is that the poorest never get it. Just not worth it. The private sector does nothing unless there's a return. For millions of South Africans, the only way they'll get connected is if the government takes the hit on paying for infrastructure and gets connectivity to them. And to be honest, I'd rather my taxes were used to connect people to the internet for free, than sitting un-spent in some municipal bank account, like happened so much in 2011. Billions of rands remained unspent because the people running the show are too lazy to buy stuff for citizens with the free money they're given.

Although I do agree that Infraco is an awesome asset - at the very least, the government should run that as a free open-access network that the government pays to maintain. It won't get everyone connected, but boy would it shake up ZA telecomms and solve our current problem - national backhaul - literally overnight.
 
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elvis_presley said:
The problem with letting the private sector do the last mile is that the poorest never get it. Just not worth it. The private sector does nothing unless there's a return. For millions of South Africans, the only way they'll get connected is if the government takes the hit on paying for infrastructure and gets connectivity to them. And to be honest, I'd rather my taxes were used to connect people to the internet for free, than sitting un-spent in some municipal bank account, like happened so much in 2011. Billions of rands remained unspent because the people running the show are too lazy to buy stuff for citizens with the free money they're given.

Although I do agree that Infraco is an awesome asset - at the very least, the government should run that as a free open-access network that the government pays to maintain. It won't get everyone connected, but boy would it shake up ZA telecomms and solve our current problem - national backhaul - literally overnight.
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When I read the comments, I get the feeling that a lot of the commentators feel that rural people do not need the internet. Somehow they think that you must live in a city to find the internet useful. I actually feel that the internet is more important for rural areas. For example, feeling sick but can consult with a doctor, while the nearest doc is 2 hours away.

The bulk of that money will go to the access leg. Now if they allow private companies to do it, the big players will still not be interested, but smaller players will stand up. There is quite a few wireless providers (even with uncapped) who is doing it already.

If we have a national backhaul, and metro rings within the cities, with open access and decent pricing, we would see more companies rolling out FTTH. We would see communities rise up, and instead of only doing sector policing, they will also add their own fibre network. We will see networks like the WUGs connect to the national network, etc.
 
Paul_S said:
As much as I like the idea of better telecommunications for everyone, I think there are far better places to invest money such as the education system.
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Good broadband penetration, not necessairly 100%, and DTV both have huge potential to improve education. E.g. DTV will have enough capacity for a 24/7 language education channel with timeslots and languages rotating. It could also disseminat news with captions and with in 'Special (insert language)' like the Voice of America has or had. News read at maybe 70/80% percent of normal talking speed and great emphasis on pronounciation. Likewise there will be space for a specialized math/science channel.
Having specialized education channels would allow the students to watch it when they are up and awake, unlike the present programs which air at 01:00 or so in the morning. How many of the people who would benefit most from such education will have a VCR are home?
 
zamicro said:
When I read the comments, I get the feeling that a lot of the commentators feel that rural people do not need the internet. Somehow they think that you must live in a city to find the internet useful. I actually feel that the internet is more important for rural areas. For example, feeling sick but can consult with a doctor, while the nearest doc is 2 hours away.
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Would it be too much to expect spend 15 or 30 minutes to get to the nearest community centre, first aid station, central home carer office, etc. which may have been equipped with good broadband facilities, to consult with the doctor from there?
 
B.O.F.H. said:
R90bn?

That clearly means they aren't doing fibre to every premise like they are in Australia...
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*Sigh* How I wish I was an Aussie right now,seeing it being implemented instead of pipe dreams.

All Australian premises will have access to high-speed broadband.

The NBN will provide high-speed broadband access to every home, workplace, school and hospital in Australia. The NBN will deliver speeds up to 100 times faster than many people experience today through an infrastructure program involving optical fibre to 93 per cent of premises. Remaining premises will be connected via next-generation fixed-wireless and satellite services that will provide peak speeds of 12 megabits per second.
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I read and wept. http://www.nbn.gov.au/frequently-asked-questions/#a535
And plus some more.http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html
 
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