The SA Politics Thread Part 3

TheChamp

TheChamp

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JuliusSeizure said:
The EFF don't have the capital within the leadership to dent the IFP heavily.

It was a different story with the ANC under Zuma. IFP is a Zulu Nationalist movement and so was Zuma who used Zulu Nationalism to rally supporters behind him. Zuma's and the IFP's networks sometimes interlinked which caused the downfall of IFP. IIRC, IFP controls Nkandla as well.
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That's the reason the ANC in KZN think Zuma is such a treasure, in their minds holding on to him means holding on to the Zulu support. In the process they are missing the whole bigger picture of cutting themselves loose and reinventing themselves, a new leader must emerge that will take the part forward but with the infighting they are destroying each other instead of strengthening themselves to be resilient to Zuma's tactics.
 
TheChamp

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PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644005861524643840
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It will make all the sense in the world if the DA could be left with their 22% to find its way to govern with it.

But it just doesn't make sense why some parties would accept being part of the coalition then grumble that they are not equal partners, it's simple, you are in or out.

Having said that the other parties in the coalition are being very narrow minded about the whole thing, the DA has their priorities straight, they want to dethrone the ANC, if that fails, they want to go into a coalition with the ANC, either way, it's a win win for them. I just don't see any strategy from the likes of Mashaba, just too much complaining and idle threats.
 
Priapus

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PrimeSteak

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TheChamp said:
But it just doesn't make sense why some parties would accept being part of the coalition then grumble that they are not equal partners, it's simple, you are in or out.
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Exactly. In coalitions, unless the parties involved have more or less the same vote share, there'll always be a "big oke". It is what it is.

Take the DA for example, in Cederberg and KZN mostly.

In most of KZN, DA plays along to the IFP's beat, since IFP is the "big oke" there. They don't rock the boat and scream about "equal partners", "arrogance", etc...
Same in Cederberg, where the CE is the "big oke" and they occupy the mayoralty, DA and VF+ play to their beat.

Those two examples alone smash the whole "DA arrogant", and "DA no share position", narratives that others (see ASA and PA) have relied on.
TheChamp said:
Having said that the other parties in the coalition are being very narrow minded about the whole thing, the DA has their priorities straight, they want to dethrone the ANC, if that fails, they want to go into a coalition with the ANC, either way, it's a win win for them. I just don't see any strategy from the likes of Mashaba, just too much complaining and idle threats.
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You'd think that the smaller parties would be ecstatic, that the DA "finally recognizes" that they need their help and is putting a potential "martyr" ANC coalition aside for now and trying to create a "New UDF"/Moonshot.

But no, you get crying about "DA arrogance" and "DA acting like a big brother", etc. You get crying about "It was our idea first, we were already busy with it"! :crying: " from ASA, ACDP and VF+.

Let's be honest here, before John's announcement of Moonshot at Congress, no one gave a shite about what the others were perhaps trying. And that hurts them a lot that the DA is actually going through with it and "Stealing their limelight".

IMO this whole "DA arrogance/equal partners" meme, is basically for the other parties to:
  1. Try and win pity/brownie points from the media/electorate/Twitterati by going "DA arrogant, they cannot manage coalition, but WE can"
  2. Try to be the tail that wags the dog and if DA simply refuses, refer to the events of point 1
I hope things go well at the Moonshot Conference in May...
 
JuliusSeizure

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TheChamp said:
It will make all the sense in the world if the DA could be left with their 22% to find its way to govern with it.

But it just doesn't make sense why some parties would accept being part of the coalition then grumble that they are not equal partners, it's simple, you are in or out.

Having said that the other parties in the coalition are being very narrow minded about the whole thing, the DA has their priorities straight, they want to dethrone the ANC, if that fails, they want to go into a coalition with the ANC, either way, it's a win win for them. I just don't see any strategy from the likes of Mashaba, just too much complaining and idle threats.
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Mashaba's strategy in a way makes sense because the DA and EFF voter base are the main hunting ground for his party to win votes, hence he goes after them mostly.

He flirted with trying to win away the people who abstain from elections at first but I think has now given up on this.
 
Mike Hoxbig

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TheChamp said:
That's the reason the ANC in KZN think Zuma is such a treasure, in their minds holding on to him means holding on to the Zulu support. In the process they are missing the whole bigger picture of cutting themselves loose and reinventing themselves, a new leader must emerge that will take the part forward but with the infighting they are destroying each other instead of strengthening themselves to be resilient to Zuma's tactics.
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Just kick KZN out of the republic and let them govern themselves as their own country. We don't need their drama affecting the rest of the country as if they're a special child...
 
Mike Hoxbig

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TheChamp said:
I just don't see any strategy from the likes of Mashaba, just too much complaining and idle threats.
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If you think about it that was the DA during Zuma's first term. Just finger pointing and moaning about everyone else without any clear strategy of their own. And they were embarrassed at that election. They've learnt since then, obviously Mashaba hasn't...
 
TheChamp

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PrimeSteak said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644221015138918400

Yup.
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No, Professor Ditsele is not a bright Professor, the names were approved by a majority ANC parliament, Cyril does not have any bidding he needs done by the SABC, he has already won the Presidency of the ANC, so if there is anyone to benefit from stooge members of the board it is the ANC, who have approved those names, it is the ANC that is contesting the election, not Cyril, unless the Prof is saying the ANC has approved independent people who are not going to do it's bidding, which is a very unexpected vote of confidence from him.

All the Prof needs to declare those members none stooge is Cyril's opposition to them, watch how fast he will blame Cyril if it later turns out that there is a problem with some of the names
 
TheChamp

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JuliusSeizure said:
Mashaba's strategy in a way makes sense because the DA and EFF voter base are the main hunting ground for his party to win votes, hence he goes after them mostly.

He flirted with trying to win away the people who abstain from elections at first but I think has now given up on this.
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That's what I don't understand, he is in a coalition with the DA, so the success of the DA led governments is his success, so are the failures, which there is more of where their coalition governs, so I have never seen anything positive he has gained out of the coalition, he cannot criticise the coalition because he is part of it, so he has largely gone silent in the metros because he doesn't know what to say.

All he does is moan about the DA and how it's treating him but he doesn't look too much in a hurry to do anything about it. I think those who voted for him are wondering why they did that in the first place, because the guy is a massive disappointment
 
JuliusSeizure

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Mike Hoxbig said:
If you think about it that was the DA during Zuma's first term. Just finger pointing and moaning about everyone else without any clear strategy of their own. And they were embarrassed at that election. They've learnt since then, obviously Mashaba hasn't...
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Helen Zille led DA during Zuma's "first term" as you pointed out yet she is never viewed as being responsible for the DA's decline for some odd reason. During his time, she also introduced BEE and racial targets into DA party policy.
 
JuliusSeizure

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TheChamp said:
All he does is moan about the DA and how it's treating him but he doesn't look too much in a hurry to do anything about it. I think those who voted for him are wondering why they did that in the first place, because the guy is a massive disappointment
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Yeah, his strategy can improve but going after the DA is not necessarily a bad thing if you look at it strategically. The VF+ do the same thing (they even created a video where they burnt DA shirts, something no other party has done yet) which is the one time you see DA criticism defended in these circles.

Beaumont is pretty funny and clever with the videos on DA so if Mashaba was smart, he should leave the DA attacks to Beaumont and rather focus on other things.
 
TheChamp

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JuliusSeizure said:
Yeah, his strategy can improve but going after the DA is not necessarily a bad thing if you look at it strategically. The VF+ do the same thing (they even created a video where they burnt DA shirts, something no other party has done yet) which is the one time you see DA criticism defended in these circles.

Beaumont is pretty funny and clever with the videos on DA so if Mashaba was smart, he should leave the DA attacks to Beaumont and rather focus on other things.
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Just leave the DA coalition entirely if he wants to complain and criticise the DA and present himself as a better alternative, vote on a case by case basis, he is not hungry because the Oppenheimers are pouring in a lot of money into the party, so he doesn't really need the MMC positions, everyone can be a normal councillor.

What he doing now is confusing his supporters and making him look like an idiot, the guy sign something with the DA today, and by evening he is already complaining about how the DA is treating him, remember what happened with Vasco Da Gama in Joburg, Mashaba was totally cool with the guy, when the guy was voted out Mashaba suddenly had a problem with him and threatening the DA if they brought him back.

It is such things that makes him and his party look bad, if he is not careful he will be left only with Beaumont and everyone will be gone.
 
JuliusSeizure

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TheChamp said:
It is such things that makes him and his party look bad, if he is not careful he will be left only with Beaumont and everyone will be gone.
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True, I thought he would set up Baloyi to be a leader and then gradually step aside which would have been a smart strategy but now Baloyi is gone. He does need to find a heir to the throne.

Beaumont is an excellent PR/Propaganda guy but not necessarily leadership material so he will have to find someone else. Zwakele Mncwango (KZN Action SA leader) also has the networks but is not charismatic enough to be a leader.
 
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