The SA Politics Thread Part 3

rietrot

rietrot

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JuliusSeizure said:
Mandela was too old by the time he was President. I actually think he was more of a symbol after the negotiations and his advisors were the ones doing the work but maybe that is how a country should be run because the advisors often know more than the Presidents. Had Mbeki relied on advisors for the Aids crisis, it would have been handled better because we do have some good medical minds in SA.
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No. Unelected advisors running things is the worst thing. Your side like to complain about lobbyists and money influencing politicians. That's a valid argument you have. Be consistent now.
 
6spdmanual

6spdmanual

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rietrot said:
No. Unelected advisors running things is the worst thing. Your side like to complain about lobbyists and money influencing politicians. That's a valid argument you have. Be consistent now.
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Not sure how you can give Mandela anything other than an A. His impact truly cannot be quantified.
 
6spdmanual

6spdmanual

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rietrot said:
O really? What did he actually do?
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Reconciliation, pushed equality and justice, managed transition, didn't loot, helped SA have some positive light in the international community, etc.

Now, this may not be substantial in your view to warrant an A score, and that's genuinely okay.

Those are my reasons I'd give him an A. What are your reasons for your score?
 
rietrot

rietrot

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rietrot said:
De Klerk B (could have excluded the ANC from negotiations more)
Mandela C ( Good job didn't go full commie and served only one term, remarkable for and African struggle hero, but meh.)
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rietrot said:
You have to rate de Klerk at least one higher than Mandela as he did all the actual work
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6spdmanual said:
Reconciliation, pushed equality and justice, managed transition, didn't loot, helped SA have some positive light in the international community, etc.

Now, this may not be substantial in your view to warrant an A score, and that's genuinely okay.

Those are my reasons I'd give him an A. What are your reasons for your score?
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As above.
 
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sefeddt

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Mbeki should be much lower, aids denialist even bringing racism into it, under playing rape incidents again bringing racism into it. , ignoring the need for additional energy to cope with demand and then the burying of the Khampepe report which found the 2002 Zimbabwe elections was a sham stolen by Zanu PF.
 
JuliusSeizure

JuliusSeizure

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Any idea what happened to Jerm? I remember the guy's social media became very weird for a while and some of his former buddies (Cabanac, Renaldo etc) started slowly disassociating with him and then he just vanished.

Is he well?
 
rietrot

rietrot

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sefeddt said:
Mbeki should be much lower, aids denialist even bringing racism into it, under playing rape incidents again bringing racism into it. , ignoring the need for additional energy to cope with demand and then the burying of the Khampepe report which found the 2002 Zimbabwe elections was a sham stolen by Zanu PF.
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Another Karen that wants the government to regulate who people can have sex with and force taxpayer to pay for people's bad behavior.
 
PrimeSteak

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The_Right_Honourable_Brit said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630819549225394176
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Me to Parliament rn:

7cuhvz.jpg
 
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ghaye

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6spdmanual said:
Reconciliation, pushed equality and justice, managed transition, didn't loot, helped SA have some positive light in the international community, etc.

Now, this may not be substantial in your view to warrant an A score, and that's genuinely okay.

Those are my reasons I'd give him an A. What are your reasons for your score?
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Are you very sure about that? I think if you dig a bit deeper you may find that he was a-okay with "rewarding" that sacrificed so much. As long as the ANC also benefited. So in my view he is the catalyst for corruption in SA. He's unfortunately not quite the saint that so many millions would love him to be.
 
6spdmanual

6spdmanual

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ghaye said:
Are you very sure about that? I think if you dig a bit deeper you may find that he was a-okay with "rewarding" that sacrificed so much. As long as the ANC also benefited. So in my view he is the catalyst for corruption in SA. He's unfortunately not quite the saint that so many millions would love him to be.
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No politician ever is a saint.

I don't see it the same as you when you say "he is the catalyst for corruption in SA". I personally don't think he is. I think Zuma is the main man for that. He and Tony Yengeni and the likes. Once Mandela stepped down, the hunger to eat went up a few notches, lead by Mr Zuma himself.

EDIT: if a poll was made here on MyBB, I believe most would agree with my statement. Yes, the ANC as a whole is complicit, but Zuma is the main guy in my view.
 
PrimeSteak

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6spdmanual said:
No politician ever is a saint.

I don't see it the same as you when you say "he is the catalyst for corruption in SA". I personally don't think he is. I think Zuma is the main man for that. He and Tony Yengeni and the likes. Once Mandela stepped down, the hunger to eat went up a few notches, lead by Mr Zuma himself.
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I disagree with you saying ANC corruption only started under Zuma...

It was always there but at least in the beginning (Mandela and most of Mbeki 1), the ANC tried to combat this and there weren't so many instances (Arms Deal is the most well-known one). But from Mbeki 2 onwards, that's when it started to get ugly, hitting its crescendo during the Zuma era.
 
6spdmanual

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PrimeSteak said:
I disagree with you saying ANC corruption only started under Zuma...

It was always there but at least in the beginning (Mandela and most of Mbeki 1), the ANC tried to combat this and there weren't so many instances (Arms Deal is the most well-known one). But from Mbeki 2 onwards, that's when it started to get ugly, hitting its crescendo during the Zuma era.
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Apologies, I wasn't clear.

Corruption in democratic SA has been around since the early days. I am not disputing that. What I am saying is that even in that first presidency of Mandela, the previously mentioned chaps (and others) were already doing their thing. What I am saying is that if I personally had to put one name on who the "catalyst" is, i.e., pushed for it, enabled it, and participated in it, it is Jacob Zuma.
 
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