The SA Politics Thread

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PrimeSteak said:
That's a weird way of thinking, my guy. So if the ANC falls under 50% in 2024, does less than half of SA now agree with BEE, black people included?

There's more than meets the eye. The war is affecting everything from fuel prices to basic foodstuffs. Our economy suffers for it, although not super visible, it's there.

China, sure. India, maybe. But Russia not even. Our economic partners are mostly Western and other African countries. We only have bilateral trade agreements with the US, UK and Zim (the latter of which is basically useless atm).

en.wikipedia.org

Foreign trade of South Africa - Wikipedia

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en.wikipedia.org

Foreign trade of South Africa - Wikipedia

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Ahhh, deflection. "Yes, but, but the Anglosphere..." No. Most of the West opposed it. New Zealand and Canada didn't even participate. Nice try.

Coalition: US, UK, AUS, Spain, Denmark, Netherlands, Italy, Poland.

Btw SA didn't stay neutral during Iraq. THEY OPPOSED THE INVASION.

en.wikipedia.org

2003 invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia

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International reactions to the prelude to the Iraq War - Wikipedia

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The invasion of Iraq was a massive stuff up by the West. Saddam was a massive dick but the country was better off under him and if he remained in charge, groups like ISIS etc would never have been formed.

The Western puppet governments installed after they remove a dictator also often turns out to be worse or as bad.

SA was actually right about Iraq.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
The invasion of Iraq was a massive stuff up by the West. Saddam was a massive dick but the country was better off under him and if he remained in charge, groups like ISIS etc would never have been formed.

The Western puppet governments installed after they remove a dictator also often turns out to be worse or as bad.

SA was actually right about Iraq.
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When Saddam invaded Kuwait, how was that better for those in Kuwait.
 
JuliusSeizure said:
The invasion of Iraq was a massive stuff up by the West. Saddam was a massive dick but the country was better off under him and if he remained in charge, groups like ISIS etc would never have been formed.

The Western puppet governments installed after they remove a dictator also often turns out to be worse or as bad.
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Yeah, 2003 Iraq was a mistake.
JuliusSeizure said:
SA was actually right about Iraq.
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I don't disagree about that one.
 
sefeddt said:
When Saddam invaded Kuwait, how was that better for those in Kuwait.
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It's a complex topic and that is another discussion altogether but that does not take away from the fact that the West stuffed up there badly and caused groups like ISIS etc to form. The region ended off far worse than it was under Saddam and they caused it.

Odd how they only suddenly wanted to prosecute him in 2003 for crimes against humanity he committed in 1982. The West are willing to support vile dictators but suddenly turn on them the moment their mineral and resource interests in a particular region is under threat.
 
www.news24.com

Trevor Manuel threatens legal action against JJ Tabane for claiming he helped form Cope | News24

Infuriated by allegations made by JJ Tabane that he had a hand in the formation of Cope, former finance minister Trevor Manuel gave the media personality until the close of business on Wednesday to retract "the falsehoods".
www.news24.com www.news24.com

Lol.

Infuriated by allegations made by JJ Tabane that he had a hand in the formation of Cope, former finance minister Trevor Manuel gave the media personality until the close of business on Wednesday to retract "the falsehoods".

In a letter dated 9 May, and seen by News24, Manuel confronted Tabane regarding his interview on a podcast, "The Hustlers Corner", which was aired on YouTube three weeks ago.

"I am compelled to address you in relation to certain statements you made relating to and concerning me, among others. During the aforementioned interview, you boldly claimed that I and several others played a role in the formation of Cope.
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www.news24.com

Public Protector's impeachment continues as MPs not swayed by latest Stalingrad tactics | News24

Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane's Stalingrad tactics to prevent her impeachment did not have an impact on Parliament - the Section 194 Committee decided to forge ahead despite her latest legal manoeuvres.
www.news24.com www.news24.com
Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane's Stalingrad tactics to prevent her impeachment did not have an impact on Parliament - the Section 194 Committee decided to forge ahead despite her latest legal manoeuvres.

The committee - named after the section of the Constitution dealing with the removal of the head of Chapter 9 institutions - met on Wednesday to discuss its way forward and adopt a programme.
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The ANC MPs on the committee and the DA's Leon Schreiber and GOOD's Brett Herron agreed and decided to forge ahead.

Mkhwebane could once again bank on the support of UDM leader Bantu Holomisa and ATM leader Vuyolwethu Zungula.
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www.iol.co.za

Ekurhuleni MMC for Finance and Economic Development Graham Gersbach resigns

www.iol.co.za www.iol.co.za

Gersbach had been in office for about five months since the multi-party coalition government took over the city of Ekurhuleni. The former MMC bid farewell and left the Whatsapp group of the mayoral committee.

This morning he shared a message where he said the resignation was one of the toughest decisions of his life.
 
TheChamp said:
www.iol.co.za

Ekurhuleni MMC for Finance and Economic Development Graham Gersbach resigns

www.iol.co.za www.iol.co.za

Gersbach had been in office for about five months since the multi-party coalition government took over the city of Ekurhuleni. The former MMC bid farewell and left the Whatsapp group of the mayoral committee.

This morning he shared a message where he said the resignation was one of the toughest decisions of his life.
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Saw this yesterday. Well, good luck to him and his future endeavours.

Wonder who'll replace him?
 
PrimeSteak said:
Not sure? Odd, it seems like ATM is also rushing to the defence of Mkhwebane?
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It's perfectly understandable for ATM unless you have forgotten who they are? They are the party that was apparently founded by the Zuptoids to reduce support from the ANC and make Cyril look bad, one of their leaders is Mzwanele Manyi, who is now Zuma's spokesperson, they are the party which was busy calling for a motion of no confidence against Ramaphosa, so everything checks out on that side.

It's Holomisa's deal that I don't understand, but I do understand that he has interest in the ANC's factional battles so it must be related to that.
 
www.news24.com

Pieter du Toit | Suffering from ANC nostalgia? These 5 turning points will quickly sober you up | News24

Pieter du Toit reflects on five times that the ANC showed that it defended itself against extensive corruption, in light of a resurgence of ANC nostalgia. He argues that the party will never be able to reinvent itself as an efficient, modern political party.
www.news24.com www.news24.com

It's becoming one of the debates of our time: Will the ANC be able to stop its slide towards criminality and corruption and reinvent itself as an efficient, modern political party?

No, it won't.

Why?

Because the actual evidence that the ANC and its leaders do not possess the conviction, determination or leadership to do so is overwhelming. The answer could quite succinctly be "Zondo", or more elaborately, "read Zondo". Nevertheless, the ANC has, over a period of 20 years, almost without fail, sought to defend instances of extensive corruption.

Recall these five pearlers?

  • The arms deal
Was this the ANC's original sin? Many people believe so. After democracy, the militarists in the ANC pushed hard for an overhaul of the new SA National Defence Force, arguing that the country's military hardware was too old and outdated to serve South Africa's regional interests. After an international beauty contest in which European arms manufacturers wooed the new political elite, contracts worth billions of dollars were placed for new men o' war, fighter jets and helicopters. But it soon went sour, as allegations of large-scale bribery and corruption surfaced. And when Parliament's oversight committees became involved, ANC heavyweights intervened, quashing any attempt to probe the money flows and private arrangements that had its origins in arms dealers' salons in Berlin, Rome and London.

It would become a pattern, but very little accountability was given, with many an ANC fixer today still enjoying the fruits of European largesse. Parliament was sidelined, whitewashed reports were issued, a low-level party MP was sent to jail, and that was it.

  • Chancellor House
It is quite remarkable that the ANC's investment arm, Chancellor House (named after the building in which the law firm of Oliver Tambo and Nelson Mandela had their offices), was an early investor in a company which was to receive billions of rand in tenders from Eskom – but that's exactly what happened. When the government agreed to a multibillion-rand build programme to supplement the country's ageing fleet of power stations, international supplier Hitachi looked for a local empowerment partner – and found Chancellor House.

Before the ANC's contentious Polokwane conference, it became a wedge issue, with the Zuma grouping saying they will clean up if any corruption is involved. After Polokwane, though, those promises disappeared, with the party batting away any and all attempts to query a quite obviously irregular relationship. And Chancellor House became a partner in Hitachi Power Africa, scoring millions of rand as Medupi and Kusile mega power stations started taking shape. (They're still not complete.)
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Nkandla

By the time the excesses at former president Jacob Zuma's rural homestead were exposed, the ANC seemed not to care about revelations linking it to corruption and theft. Its leaders launched feverish attacks on former Public Protector Thuli Madonsela, after her investigation into the luxurious additions to the Zuma estate on the public dime, attacking her personally and accusing her of being "a spy". And although the Minister of Police's laughable roadshow justifying the alterations grabbed the headlines, the way in which the party blocked parliamentary inquiries was crude. Committees were packed with Zuma loyalists, and the speaker protected the president from almost all questions. It was left to the court to force Zuma to pay back the money.

Waterkloof

Is there a more bombastic example of how the ANC knelt before the Guptas than the infamous landing of a party plane full of wedding revellers at the country's primary Air Force Base? The galling sight of the Jet Airways Airbus on the tarmac in Pretoria is one of the defining images of state capture, alongside vehicles from the Metro Police, escorting disembarked guests to Sun City, a gaudy venue for a wedding if ever there was one. Gwede Mantashe, one of Zuma's prime enablers, issued an "angry" statement by the ANC, demanding answers, all for show. The ANC looked the other way as Zuma's relationship with the Guptas strengthened, and their voracious appetite to claim more of this country's sovereignty picked up steam.


Mcebisi Jonas

In 2016, Jonas, then Deputy Minister of Finance, went public in revealing that he was offered an obscene bribe to accept a promotion to Minister of Finance. This, he believed, was so that he could assist in furthering the Guptas' business interests.

What did the ANC do upon hearing the claims by someone of his standing? It angrily rejected it, attacking the media for creating a narrative "where the ANC and its leaders are beholden to the Guptas" (I can't remember if it was Zizi Kodwa or Jessie Duarte who said it. It was one of them), and refusing to investigate what was really afoot. And while the ANC were incredulously rejecting claims of capture, Zuma and the Guptas were eagerly beavering away at our national accounts. And corruption was left to flourish at every level of government and party.
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