The Syrian Conflict Thread

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AntiGanda

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Xarog said:
Really?

Why would the Syrians flee to Europe to live in refugee camps if they had a stable way of life? For the most part, Assad's rule was stable enough to guarantee the peasants some kind of employment and food to eat etc.

I think the Western Media has vastly overstated the Syrian antipathy towards Assad for PR reasons. I don't see people asking actual refugees what their opinion on the conflict is. This lack of perspective makes me suspicious as to the authenticity of the claims.

Juncker's volte-face with regards to Russia is quite telling in this regard. I would not be at all surprised if the reason for his arguing that Europe should support Russia is precisely because he thinks Russia can put a decisive end to Europe's refugee problem. If there's no war, there's no disaster to run from anymore.

And in this regard, any "Mission Accomplished" declaration from Russia might well be used by EU politicians to justify refusing to grant refugee status to any more Syrians.
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When the war ends, and there is some stability they will have fresh elections. In order to get loans to rebuild, the conditions will be that there is a democratic process.

The sooner the current government overcomes the conflict, the sooner they can start.
 
Xarog

Xarog

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HideInLight said:
What if Assad just quits and Russia grants him asylum?
No one can then claim credit for killing him, that would be a huge blow to just about everyone's agenda.
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Russia wants Assad in power, because Assad is friendly with Russia and Iran, and Iran needs Assad in power in order to conclude the Russia/Iran/Syria pipeline access to secure dominance of the European energy market.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar want to use Syria to build a different network that would compete with Russia, and that's why they're so insistent that Assad must go.
 
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S.a.i.n.T

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Would western countries welcome bombarding of hospitals and schools and killing of thousands of innocent civilians by Muslim countries? When a misdirected WMD falls on a hospital, the oppressor's reaction is usually "Oops, sorry".
 
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S.a.i.n.T

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The dominoes in the Middle East started toppling when the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and removed Saddam who was the glue that kept everything together. Since Saddam was removed and USA started supplying weapons and support to rebels who can advance the US's hidden agenda, it was downhill from there.
 
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cybershark

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Xarog said:
Really?

Why would the Syrians flee to Europe to live in refugee camps if they had a stable way of life? For the most part, Assad's rule was stable enough to guarantee the peasants some kind of employment and food to eat etc.

I think the Western Media has vastly overstated the Syrian antipathy towards Assad for PR reasons. I don't see people asking actual refugees what their opinion on the conflict is. This lack of perspective makes me suspicious as to the authenticity of the claims.

Juncker's volte-face with regards to Russia is quite telling in this regard. I would not be at all surprised if the reason for his arguing that Europe should support Russia is precisely because he thinks Russia can put a decisive end to Europe's refugee problem. If there's no war, there's no disaster to run from anymore.

And in this regard, any "Mission Accomplished" declaration from Russia might well be used by EU politicians to justify refusing to grant refugee status to any more Syrians.
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So, according to you, Assad isn't a reason people left Syria, it's all ISIL and other groups doing?

The refugee camps in the surrounding countries had hundreds of thousands of Syrians long before ISIL controlled a large area of Syria...
 
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cybershark said:
So, according to you, Assad isn't a reason people left Syria, it's all ISIL and other groups doing?
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Did they start fleeing before or after the fighting started?

The refugee camps in the surrounding countries had hundreds of thousands of Syrians long before ISIL controlled a large area of Syria...
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Yes, and that was after Saudi Arabia and Qatar had started funding mercenaries to fight inside Syria. The war there, and the attempts to oust Assad, do indeed predate ISIS.
 
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AntiGanda

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S.a.i.n.T said:
Would western countries welcome bombarding of hospitals and schools and killing of thousands of innocent civilians by Muslim countries? When a misdirected WMD falls on a hospital, the oppressor's reaction is usually "Oops, sorry".
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Good point, but the more pertinent quesion is whether "western countries" would allow so many terrorists to operate from their midst.
 
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cybershark

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Xarog said:
Did they start fleeing before or after the fighting started?


Yes, and that was after Saudi Arabia and Qatar had started funding mercenaries to fight inside Syria. The war there, and the attempts to oust Assad, do indeed predate ISIS.
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Well, the way Assad handled the so called "Arab Spring" protests played a large role too.
 
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In addition, administration officials and Middle East experts on both sides of the debate tell us, Obama's foreign-policy team no longer doubts that Russian President Vladimir Putin intends to prop up President Bashar al-Assad and primarily target opposition groups other than the Islamic State, including those trained by the Central Intelligence Agency.

The administration came to this conclusion late. Despite warnings from U.S. intelligence agencies that Putin's military buildup was intended to keep Assad in power, the White House nonetheless decided to explore cooperating with Russia on the ground. Throughout the summer and into the fall, top Russian officials -- including Putin himself in a meeting last month with Obama at the U.N. -- said they were not committed to keeping Assad in power for the long term, and would only target Islamic State fighters in their military offensive, according to U.S. officials.

These officials no longer believe Russia was telling the truth. Reuters reported this week that Putin was planning his Syria intervention for months with Iranian officials, while misleading the West. Now any hope that the U.S. and Russia could work together on stabilizing Syria has ended.
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Yet Kerry and Power now find themselves without any hope that Putin might bring the Syrian regime to the table. Kerry, though always skeptical of Russia, has been the point man on engaging the Russian government through several conversations with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. But it’s now clear the Russians were leading the Obama administration down the primrose path.

“In Syria, much as it did in Ukraine, Russia has hidden its true intentions, using the ruse of joining the fight against ISIL to provide cover for Russia’s military intervention to prop up the Assad regime,” Senate Armed Services Committee ranking Democrat Jack Reed said Thursday. “Russia’s actions, however, increasingly expose their true objectives.”
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http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-09/white-house-is-weighing-a-syria-retreat

The stratospheric levels of useful idiocy with this administration is just incredible.
 
Xarog

Xarog

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cybershark said:
Well, the way Assad handled the so called "Arab Spring" protests played a large role too.
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You mean the way the West accused him of handling the "Arab Spring" protests while they set about trying to undermine him as has been their policy for decades?

Again, if Assad was such a big factor for the refugees, why doesn't anyone interview them and ask their reasons? The fact that no one seems to be interested in doing this strongly suggests to me that we're being told what the situation is instead of being shown what the situation is. And that should set off a red flag for any reasonably sceptical person.
 
OrbitalDawn

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AntiGanda said:
Yeah, act hostile to Russia, impose silly sanctions, block their finances, airspace, then expect cooperation. Boloney!
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You misunderstand Alan. For him violence and war is the answer to every geopolitical scenario. He considers Obama's failure that he didn't use violence against Russia, and Syria, and Libya and not enough in Iraq.
 
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Alan

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OrbitalDawn said:
You misunderstand Alan. For him violence and war is the answer to every geopolitical scenario. He considers Obama's failure that he didn't use violence against Russia, and Syria, and Libya and not enough in Iraq.
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No clearly it's you. Where have I said violence should used against Russia lol.

But okay if you're not an appeaser then you must be a warmonger.....
 
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