Beri
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This war will not end soon. It is going to take years to restore Egypt. Sad
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The Unrest in Egypt Thread 2013
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
AfricanTech
Honorary Master
Very sad.
Seems the military calculated that the loss of life is acceptable if they can make a serious dent in the Muslim Brotherhood who they've viewed as a serious problem for a long time.
As one commentator said, the sad thing is that for anyone in the centre, if its a choice between bearded mullahs and military fatigues they would take military fatigues - at least with the military the rules are clear and sides are not chos en on the basis of belief, with religiously inspired leadership they are terrified that they will be cast into a state that determines how you may live according to their own beliefs.
Seems the military calculated that the loss of life is acceptable if they can make a serious dent in the Muslim Brotherhood who they've viewed as a serious problem for a long time.
As one commentator said, the sad thing is that for anyone in the centre, if its a choice between bearded mullahs and military fatigues they would take military fatigues - at least with the military the rules are clear and sides are not chos en on the basis of belief, with religiously inspired leadership they are terrified that they will be cast into a state that determines how you may live according to their own beliefs.
Beri
Expert Member
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what is crazy is the people taking their children along to this rally. then stoning the cops and then cry if they get shot.....
killadoob
Honorary Master
Really, so the leader of the military and his close connection to saudis has nothing to do with religion, the hunting down of MB members has nothing to do with the saudis fear of them? You need to dig a little deeper here. It is very religeous. Go research the saudis and the MB and find out why they split. Then go see who is footing the bill for the 8-14 billion the military is receiving and tell me it isn't religious.
Odd how this is the exact situation that led to the resolution that removed and eventually killed qaddafi and the resolution they tried pass for the assad regime, tell me what is different?
Grant
Honorary Master
Hell, that's the oldest party trick.
When the children get killed or injured as a result of being used as human shields, the victim card comes flying out !
daveza
Honorary Master
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/egypt-attack_n_3778106.html?ir=World
Security forces said suspected Islamic militants ambushed two mini-buses carrying off-duty policemen in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, forcing the men out onto the pavement and shooting 25 of them dead.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Egypt's Media lines up behind State against Islamists
Egypt's media, both public and private, have lined up behind the government in portraying its fight against the Muslim Brotherhood as a "war on terror" and vilifying foreign journalists.
As police and troops chase down members of the Islamist group, from which ousted president Mohamed Morsi hails, the media have fanned the flames against the organisation.
And the foreign media have been accused of taking sides for covering the Islamists as well as the government, earning harsh criticism from the state and local press.
Egyptian media have taken part in a "campaign against the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist currents", political commentator Hisham Kassem told AFP.
"In one year of Morsi's presidency, more journalists were prosecuted than in the 185 years of the Egyptian press before," he said.
"Now, the media are exploiting the situation the Brotherhood is in to pay them back."
For days, Egypt's three state television channels have broadcast under a banner in English reading "Egypt fighting terrorism".
They report around the clock on the latest clashes between Morsi supporters and security forces that have claimed nearly 900 lives since Wednesday.
But while they show footage of wounded and killed security forces, they offer no pictures of the hundreds of protesters killed in the violence.
Between broadcasts, patriotic songs play over footage of the armed forces carrying out military exercises and showing kindness to civilians.
A piece entitled "The Black History of the Brotherhood Organisation" purports to show the group's violent history.
It includes archive footage of Brotherhood members, as well as the attempted murder of president Gamal Abdul Nasser and the assassination of president Anwar Sadat by Islamists.
It ends with clips from recent clashes, showing gunmen purportedly belonging to the group, and buildings set ablaze.
The country's newspapers have been equally uniform in their criticism of the group and in rallying behind the government and the army chief who installed it, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.
Government daily Al-Ahram on Monday devoted its entire front page -- and nine separate headlines -- to a speech by Sisi a day earlier.
Abdel Halim Qandil, editor-in-chief of the independent Sawt al-Ummah daily, sees the media's united front as a normal response to the country's "national battle".
A fierce critic of Islamists, he accuses the Western media of swinging between two extremes: hatred for Islam and love of the Brotherhood.
"This is what has created serious anger and suspicion on the part of Egyptians" towards foreign media, he said.
Since Morsi's July 3 ouster by the military after mass demonstrations, the foreign media have come under attack from the government and the population, particularly in Cairo.
Al-Jazeera has been a particular target, accused of overtly pro-Brotherhood coverage, and facing a government review of the operating licence of one of its local stations.
The channel said a correspondent for Al-Jazeera Arabic, Abdullah al-Shami, had been arrested during the dispersal of a pro-Morsi protest camp on August 14.
Authorities accuse Western journalists of ignoring the victims of violence committed by Morsi's supporters, such as police and soldiers.
Simply walking in the street with a camera has become increasingly dangerous, said one Western photographer on condition of anonymity.
"I'm afraid to go into the street with my cameras since the government authorised security forces to open fire" on demonstrators targeting government buildings, he said.
"Today, I managed to take a few pictures from the car. I got out for 45 seconds to take some others," added the photographer, who has been in Egypt for 18 months.
"The government is inciting public hatred against us," he said, adding that two photographer friends had recently been beaten up by a mob that accused them of being "spies."
In front of a morgue in Cairo on Monday, a group surrounded two journalists from an international news agency as they tried to interview relatives of the dead.
They shouted "Al-Jazeera!" at the journalists, who worked for a Western news agency, and quickly turned hostile.
"A group surrounded me, trying to rip the camera out of my hands," one of them said, adding that he escaped with the help of some relatives of those in the morgue.
Three journalists have been killed in Cairo since Wednesday, when security forces cleared two pro-Morsi protest camps, including a cameraman for Britain's Sky News.
Source : Sapa-AFP /sdv
Date : 20 Aug 2013 12:07
Egypt's media, both public and private, have lined up behind the government in portraying its fight against the Muslim Brotherhood as a "war on terror" and vilifying foreign journalists.
As police and troops chase down members of the Islamist group, from which ousted president Mohamed Morsi hails, the media have fanned the flames against the organisation.
And the foreign media have been accused of taking sides for covering the Islamists as well as the government, earning harsh criticism from the state and local press.
Egyptian media have taken part in a "campaign against the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist currents", political commentator Hisham Kassem told AFP.
"In one year of Morsi's presidency, more journalists were prosecuted than in the 185 years of the Egyptian press before," he said.
"Now, the media are exploiting the situation the Brotherhood is in to pay them back."
For days, Egypt's three state television channels have broadcast under a banner in English reading "Egypt fighting terrorism".
They report around the clock on the latest clashes between Morsi supporters and security forces that have claimed nearly 900 lives since Wednesday.
But while they show footage of wounded and killed security forces, they offer no pictures of the hundreds of protesters killed in the violence.
Between broadcasts, patriotic songs play over footage of the armed forces carrying out military exercises and showing kindness to civilians.
A piece entitled "The Black History of the Brotherhood Organisation" purports to show the group's violent history.
It includes archive footage of Brotherhood members, as well as the attempted murder of president Gamal Abdul Nasser and the assassination of president Anwar Sadat by Islamists.
It ends with clips from recent clashes, showing gunmen purportedly belonging to the group, and buildings set ablaze.
The country's newspapers have been equally uniform in their criticism of the group and in rallying behind the government and the army chief who installed it, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi.
Government daily Al-Ahram on Monday devoted its entire front page -- and nine separate headlines -- to a speech by Sisi a day earlier.
Abdel Halim Qandil, editor-in-chief of the independent Sawt al-Ummah daily, sees the media's united front as a normal response to the country's "national battle".
A fierce critic of Islamists, he accuses the Western media of swinging between two extremes: hatred for Islam and love of the Brotherhood.
"This is what has created serious anger and suspicion on the part of Egyptians" towards foreign media, he said.
Since Morsi's July 3 ouster by the military after mass demonstrations, the foreign media have come under attack from the government and the population, particularly in Cairo.
Al-Jazeera has been a particular target, accused of overtly pro-Brotherhood coverage, and facing a government review of the operating licence of one of its local stations.
The channel said a correspondent for Al-Jazeera Arabic, Abdullah al-Shami, had been arrested during the dispersal of a pro-Morsi protest camp on August 14.
Authorities accuse Western journalists of ignoring the victims of violence committed by Morsi's supporters, such as police and soldiers.
Simply walking in the street with a camera has become increasingly dangerous, said one Western photographer on condition of anonymity.
"I'm afraid to go into the street with my cameras since the government authorised security forces to open fire" on demonstrators targeting government buildings, he said.
"Today, I managed to take a few pictures from the car. I got out for 45 seconds to take some others," added the photographer, who has been in Egypt for 18 months.
"The government is inciting public hatred against us," he said, adding that two photographer friends had recently been beaten up by a mob that accused them of being "spies."
In front of a morgue in Cairo on Monday, a group surrounded two journalists from an international news agency as they tried to interview relatives of the dead.
They shouted "Al-Jazeera!" at the journalists, who worked for a Western news agency, and quickly turned hostile.
"A group surrounded me, trying to rip the camera out of my hands," one of them said, adding that he escaped with the help of some relatives of those in the morgue.
Three journalists have been killed in Cairo since Wednesday, when security forces cleared two pro-Morsi protest camps, including a cameraman for Britain's Sky News.
Source : Sapa-AFP /sdv
Date : 20 Aug 2013 12:07
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Philippines order its nationals to flee Egypt
The Philippines on Tuesday ordered the mandatory evacuation of its 6,000 nationals in Egypt after Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario visited the country to investigate the security situation after days of violent clashes.
Rosario also ordered the deployment of a special team to Cairo to help speed the repatriation of the Filipinos, who he urged to contact their embassy.
"The marked deterioration of peace and order in Egypt, exacerbated by the ongoing political instability and grave security challenges in that country, make working and living there increasingly difficult and dangerous," his department said in a statement.
Del Rosario visited Egypt early this week in his second trip in the past fortnight to look into the escalating violence, department spokesman Raul Hernandez said.
While in Cairo he met with a teenaged Filipino-Egyptian girl who was wounded by a stray bullet during clashes in Helwan, south of the capital. He found that she was recovering and in "good spirits", the department said.
The Philippine government urged voluntary repatriation for its citizens last week but raised the alert due to the rising violence, which has left 900 people dead following a crackdown on the protest camps of supporters of ousted Islamist president Mohamed Morsi.
About 10 million Filipinos, or 10 percent of the population, work abroad as managers, salespeople, seamen, labourers, drivers and domestic helpers, earning larger salaries than they could get in their impoverished home country.
In recent years, the Philippines has had to repatriate its nationals from Syria, Libya and the capital of Yemen due to unrest in those countries.
Del Rosario visited Syria three times in 2012 and Libya four times in 2011 to help Filipinos who wished to escape the conflicts there.
Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Aug 2013 09:47
The Philippines on Tuesday ordered the mandatory evacuation of its 6,000 nationals in Egypt after Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario visited the country to investigate the security situation after days of violent clashes.
Rosario also ordered the deployment of a special team to Cairo to help speed the repatriation of the Filipinos, who he urged to contact their embassy.
"The marked deterioration of peace and order in Egypt, exacerbated by the ongoing political instability and grave security challenges in that country, make working and living there increasingly difficult and dangerous," his department said in a statement.
Del Rosario visited Egypt early this week in his second trip in the past fortnight to look into the escalating violence, department spokesman Raul Hernandez said.
While in Cairo he met with a teenaged Filipino-Egyptian girl who was wounded by a stray bullet during clashes in Helwan, south of the capital. He found that she was recovering and in "good spirits", the department said.
The Philippine government urged voluntary repatriation for its citizens last week but raised the alert due to the rising violence, which has left 900 people dead following a crackdown on the protest camps of supporters of ousted Islamist president Mohamed Morsi.
About 10 million Filipinos, or 10 percent of the population, work abroad as managers, salespeople, seamen, labourers, drivers and domestic helpers, earning larger salaries than they could get in their impoverished home country.
In recent years, the Philippines has had to repatriate its nationals from Syria, Libya and the capital of Yemen due to unrest in those countries.
Del Rosario visited Syria three times in 2012 and Libya four times in 2011 to help Filipinos who wished to escape the conflicts there.
Source : Sapa-AFP /pk
Date : 20 Aug 2013 09:47
killadoob
Honorary Master
Why are the MB considered terrorists? Saudi arabia, qatar(not sure about them) and the UAE fund, train and arm al queda(all branches) taliban and who knows what other sunni extemists groups, what gives them the right to say the MB are terrorists.
The MB is a movement, they are not slaughtering innocent people, they are blowing up cars, they are not sending in suicide bombers. Go look at the saudi government and their country, it's a bloody horror show. Allowing the MB brotherhood to be branded terrorists by a country that funds, arms and encourages extremism in so many countries is alarming.
MB and saudi ideology is fairly similar except the MB seem to be the less extreme.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...uslim-brotherhood-unexpected-adversaries.html
The MB is a movement, they are not slaughtering innocent people, they are blowing up cars, they are not sending in suicide bombers. Go look at the saudi government and their country, it's a bloody horror show. Allowing the MB brotherhood to be branded terrorists by a country that funds, arms and encourages extremism in so many countries is alarming.
MB and saudi ideology is fairly similar except the MB seem to be the less extreme.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...uslim-brotherhood-unexpected-adversaries.html
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LazyLion
King of de Jungle
daveza
Honorary Master
You missed the pic of the dead 25 off-duty police ?
killadoob
Honorary Master
When morsi was in power democratically elected were they slaughtering people?
Now a civil war has broken out and we know both sides slaughter each other but the MB are terrorists suddenly. No you guys can show me all the brutality of a civil war, doesn't matter because a civil war will always have brutality and the slaughtering of innocent people.
Show me prior to the coup where this terrorist organization operated and who they funded and who they armed ? death of 25 off duty police vs the slaughter of 25 unarmed MB people, difference would be?
The war on terror, basically if it is a true war on terror and not a BS story the terrorists are saudi funded, so essentially the saudis are funding terrorists that attack the west. Yet they are not the enemy. Yea this all makes so much sense.
You guys keep carrying on about the slaughter by MB members but ignore when they get slaughtered. You say they deserved it. Yea unarmed people deserve to be gunned down.
One answer i would like is 25 unarmed pro morsi supporters slaughtered, 25 egypian police involved in the coup slaughtered off duty. You say the pro morsi slaughtering isn't as bad as the slaughter of 25 off duty police? To me it is the same thing. You guys seem to think the egypian army and police slaughtering innocent people is fine but morsi supporters doing it is terrorism. Bare in mind this was a coup, not some terrorist uprising.
Now a civil war has broken out and we know both sides slaughter each other but the MB are terrorists suddenly. No you guys can show me all the brutality of a civil war, doesn't matter because a civil war will always have brutality and the slaughtering of innocent people.
Show me prior to the coup where this terrorist organization operated and who they funded and who they armed ? death of 25 off duty police vs the slaughter of 25 unarmed MB people, difference would be?
The war on terror, basically if it is a true war on terror and not a BS story the terrorists are saudi funded, so essentially the saudis are funding terrorists that attack the west. Yet they are not the enemy. Yea this all makes so much sense.
You guys keep carrying on about the slaughter by MB members but ignore when they get slaughtered. You say they deserved it. Yea unarmed people deserve to be gunned down.
One answer i would like is 25 unarmed pro morsi supporters slaughtered, 25 egypian police involved in the coup slaughtered off duty. You say the pro morsi slaughtering isn't as bad as the slaughter of 25 off duty police? To me it is the same thing. You guys seem to think the egypian army and police slaughtering innocent people is fine but morsi supporters doing it is terrorism. Bare in mind this was a coup, not some terrorist uprising.
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LazyLion
King of de Jungle
I think you mean like when they shoot their own guys....
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=617_1376936436
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31b_1376995327
killadoob
Honorary Master
Yes after the coup members had told them they would go in with force if they did not leave. Sure maybe bread would have been a good weapon. This is a coup gary, two sides fighting. OMG they had weapons and fired them. Geez that is terrorism, they used the guns when attacked and not before, if the egypian army did not attack them they would not have used their weapons.
If this was assad or qaddafi doing this you guys would have such different opinions. They were removed for this exact situation only they were not allowed to do it. Seems the egypian army can remove the president and then expect everyone to accept it. What kind of fool believed attacking those camps would result in peace? What kind of foolish person would have believed the pro morsi people would not be armed? The army obviously but when you can slaughter 600-1000 people without an intervention i guess it's chilled.
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daveza
Honorary Master
I thought these peaceful protesters were unarmed ?
killadoob
Honorary Master
Why did you think that after the army warned them for weeks they would attack them with brutal force? I think you may be the only one who thought that, seems logical when threatened by armed forces who overthrew your president that you would just accept it. Daveza i don't know the planet you live on but you need to come back to earth.
Obama pleaded with the army not to go in, sisi refused to take obamas calls let alone listen to his warning of violence.
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Grant
Honorary Master
I think you have forgotten the very recent (only 2 yrs) history.
2011
Protests by the population caused mubarak to flee - military took control, dissolved current parliament & constitution.
Election takes place, morsi elected. Soon thereafter parliamentary walkout occurs as it is felt morsi intends imposing strict islamic law.
Morsi then issues a declaration immunizing his decrees from challenge.
Population protests again, this time more so than previously. This leads to clashes between the general population and islamists supporting morsi's intent of imposing strict islamic law on the country.
Again, military steps in to assume control the rapidly deteriorating situation.
A huge uprising of the population against morsi takes place, military steps in & removes morsi, interim government is put in place.
So on each occasion the military have stepped in and assumed control.
You seem to not have had a problem when the military assumed control when there was an uprising against mubarak, but now when the military have done the same as a result of an uprising against morsi trying to impose islamic law, you have a problem.
daveza
Honorary Master
It's not politically correct, but I would choose Zuma and his 40 thieves over anyone trying to impose islamic law.
We are no longer in the dark ages.
killadoob
Honorary Master
The uprising against muburak was supported by every single Egyptian, united in their desire for democracy. Now there is a divide, Egyptians killing each other something the army refused to do when muburak called for it.
Muburak was removed peacefully because the army would not kill their people even when ordered to. With muburak being released from prison and the MB being rounded up Egyptians be it pro or anti morsi are once again under the military muburak linked regime who dictated for so long, only the pro morsi guys can see it. The reason egypians rose up was to remove a dictator/military rule and now they are back to square 1. So when it calms down and the MB supporters are all dead or jailed. Will the population once again rise up against military rule and dictatorship? So i can't see how egypt can work. Democracy fails, dictatorship fails so WTF do they want? No democracy, no dictatorship. Let's say elections take place and they don't like the new president, uprising and coup. Where does the cycle end?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...the-way-for-the-release-of-Hosni-Mubarak.html
Wow these egypian military ruler do not think. They are going to turn the anti morsi people into anti military people. Wow if they release him it will get interesting.
Latest news:
So a person against the brutal crack down and vice president resigns and now they want review a case against him for walking out of the brutality he was witnessing. Absolute joke.
Muburak was removed peacefully because the army would not kill their people even when ordered to. With muburak being released from prison and the MB being rounded up Egyptians be it pro or anti morsi are once again under the military muburak linked regime who dictated for so long, only the pro morsi guys can see it. The reason egypians rose up was to remove a dictator/military rule and now they are back to square 1. So when it calms down and the MB supporters are all dead or jailed. Will the population once again rise up against military rule and dictatorship? So i can't see how egypt can work. Democracy fails, dictatorship fails so WTF do they want? No democracy, no dictatorship. Let's say elections take place and they don't like the new president, uprising and coup. Where does the cycle end?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...the-way-for-the-release-of-Hosni-Mubarak.html
Wow these egypian military ruler do not think. They are going to turn the anti morsi people into anti military people. Wow if they release him it will get interesting.
Latest news:
So a person against the brutal crack down and vice president resigns and now they want review a case against him for walking out of the brutality he was witnessing. Absolute joke.
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AfricanTech
Honorary Master
Even the moderate Muslims here have to concede that the prospect of Islamic Law in an Arab country will give them pause for thought.
Arab countries don't seem to know how to 'do' Islamic Law in a benign manner - it almost always turns into the removal of what is considered 'normal' rights in western countries.
While what is happening in Egypt is absolutely tragic, I can well imagine the terror evoked by a president who states that Egypt will henceforth be governed via Shariah Law - Islamists in Arab countries (notwithstanding the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will erupt here in response to this statement) are NOT renowned for benign humanitarianism.
PS: I know that Muslims will want to defend the MB in Egypt as an act of solidarity, however, look deep and ask yourself if YOU would prefer to live with a secular government that is tolerant of all beliefs or an Islamist one that is tolerant of only Muslims (and their own brand of Muslim to boot).
Afghanistan and the Taliban still give me the shivers when I think of what they (the Taliban) perpetrated on the ordinary Afghanis.