This is why SA networks need spectrum now

MickeyD said:
In which bands?
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torn between saying:
(a) Alice
(b) Rock
(c) Boy
(d) Marching

I am not aware of any band where spectrum is allocated, allotted and assigned in SA which is grossly underutilized where there is technology using that band and there is demand for the band in alignment with the purpose of the assignment. If possible efficiency is considered I imagine SAPS should return a fair amount and pay their phone bills ...
 
Heh heh!

And therein lies the rub. There Is such a thing as spectrum allocated for the provision of mobile services -----
No mention is made of technology at all in the definition.

So there are three major arguments going on here in more than one thread:

(1) Are the current licensed operators utilising what they got "assigned to them" efficiently

The technical measure of spectrum efficiency is really simple -- it is bits/Hz. The commercial definition of spectrum efficiency is the complex one as seen by the debates in this thread and others --- ?

Towers per MHz as suggested is complete rubbish- it does not measure usage at all.
Subscribers / MHz has applications but still does not measure efficiency because it does not take into account usage .

Generally speaking, the operators will all claim they are squeezing their technologies to the limit - Hence why the debate comes up regarding technology replacement. Once a lemon has been squeezed and their is no juice left you have to reach for a new lemon.

So now it is down to are the operators deploying their spectrum correctly? Are they being prevented from deploying their spectrum correctly? Are they using the correct spectrum in the correct areas to properly address service densities? Are their spectrum re-use patterns optimal? Are they building sufficient new base stations to address the increased demand for subscribers and usage patterns?
Are they ensuring that the network infrastructure is correct to carry the traffic to and from those base stations or are they trying stuff all that traffic down inefficient PTP microwave links? Running at what backbone capacities? Lots of questions, many theories.

(2) What has happened to the spectrum allocated to mobile services in SA and has it all been assigned?

Well at the moment we have been waiting for years for ICASA to sort out the so-called LTE spectrum assignments. The allocations have been made, they are logged in the SA TOFA, which incidentally was only recently published. Based on the Wi-Max debacle one has to wonder ........

What is outstanding is the process whereby the assignments will be made, by default to the incumbents or by auction or what.
Hence why the debate is so heavy around the Neotel Vodacom deal ----- and also why the DTT thing is so hot --- the dividend was supposed to be available by now for auction, assignment whatever.

(3) Where will more spectrum for mobile services come from?

I think we have sort of killed off the last item for now, except to add that the next WRC2015 conference agenda item 1.1 deals exclusively with the question of spectrum for IMT ( International Mobile Telecommunications) specifically for terrestrial mobile broadband applications. ( Notice the words -- NO mention of technology at all).
19 candidate bands were identified by the ITU study groups involved. From the one affected by the DTT exercise, most suitable for deployment in low subscriber density areas (470-694/698 MHz) to bands currently exclusively used for satellite services (5.9 -6.5 GHz).
Every single country that is a member of the ITU has to indicate what its position is on all 19 bands identified, taking into account the existing users of these bands, the technical parameters involved, the best method to utilise the bands efficiently, the effect on the existing users of these bands (note NONE of the bands are free and open). ALL of them involve the existing users to agree to migrate their services elsewhere).

The problem in SA is that this entire debate in the country is currently supposedly in the public domain, bit it is not, it is in the hands of the "incumbents" ( cellular operators, etc., all of them with vested interests), each of them as heated as the DTT affected bands.

So those that have a problem with having to change their devices to accommodate other bands, wait for it, you have no idea how big the issue is! No one cares about you or me and our devices -- the blasted things are obsolete before you buy them!
 
Swa said:
Whatever you believe to be nonsense, the topic isn't DTT and it's access technologies.

BACK ON TOPIC: There's a heap of spectrum not utilised.
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Paul Hjul said:
torn between saying:
(a) Alice
(b) Rock
(c) Boy
(d) Marching

I am not aware of any band where spectrum is allocated, allotted and assigned in SA which is grossly underutilized where there is technology using that band and there is demand for the band in alignment with the purpose of the assignment. If possible efficiency is considered I imagine SAPS should return a fair amount and pay their phone bills ...
Click to expand...

Not so, the bands identified are all in use in SA. This particular urban myth has been killed off a number of times. There are NO idle bands doing nothing, each has an assignment and is being used for the purpose intended. What MAY be true is that not enough has been done to pressurise the incumbent users to introduce more efficient technologies to improve the utilisation of the spectrum assigned to them.
 
Paul Hjul said:
torn between saying:
(a) Alice
(b) Rock
(c) Boy
(d) Marching

I am not aware of any band where spectrum is allocated, allotted and assigned in SA which is grossly underutilized where there is technology using that band and there is demand for the band in alignment with the purpose of the assignment. If possible efficiency is considered I imagine SAPS should return a fair amount and pay their phone bills ...
Click to expand...

http://www.bmiresearch.com/news-and...rail-plans-for-south-african-mobile-operators
 
when looking at military, police, emergency services and aviation the measures to get more efficient use is offset against tried and tested legacy systems

I genuinely believe this applies the least to SAPS but certainly for emergency services and aviation you have a heap of equipment in play.
It would be great if all ambulances could be kitted out with Imarsat's BGAN technology (again with the satellite based stuff :)) but ultimately radio technology even somewhat inefficiently managed saving lives is quite valuable - that and the handset looks cool in response cars ...

Also do you really want to be the guy telling the Hams to get off the radio? There is some spectrum the big players would love to take.
daniellgr said:
Not so, the bands identified are all in use in SA. This particular urban myth has been killed off a number of times. There are NO idle bands doing nothing, each has an assignment and is being used for the purpose intended. What MAY be true is that not enough has been done to pressurise the incumbent users to introduce more efficient technologies to improve the utilisation of the spectrum assigned to them.
Click to expand...
 
MickeyD said:
In which bands?
Click to expand...


The following bands have already been eliminated from the list of possible bands in SA
410 - 430 MHz --- used for digital trunking and PMR
470- 694 MHz --- extensively and very efficiently used for BC services
1518 - 1525 MHz --- simplex fixed links are declining BUT is extensively used for INMARSAT services
1690 - 1710 MHz --- Used by MedAids, band is only 20 MHz wide anyway
2025 - 2110 MHz --- Fixed links seen as a place to migrate other fixed links into so not a candidate band for IMT.
2200 - 2825 MHz --- ditto
3300 - 3400 MHz --- radiolocation in SA
3800 - 4200 MHz --- FS and FSS Satellite services
4400 - 5000 MHz --- Govt services , if I tell you what for I would have to kill you.
5350 - 5470 MHz --- Weather RADAR growing importance world wide allocation exclusive , climate change etc etc
5725 - 5850 MHz --- ISM, anyone prepared to give up your Wi-Fi allocations ???
5925 - 6425 MHz --- FS and FSS satellite Services

The following bands are possibilities in SA where the incumbents have agreed to a reduction and or a migration

1350 - 1400 MHz --- current use for PTP could be migrated to more efficient bands for FS
1427 - 1452 MHz --- FS PTP , ditto
1452 - 1492 MHz --- previously reserved for T -DAB and S-DAB, both service have died a natural death just about everywhere. (40 MHz)
1492 - 1518 MHz --- Simplex FS could be migrated
3400 - 3600 MHz --- already available for IMT, Wi-max and the deployment in SA has been a disaster heavy debate about whether it is actually suitable for IMT.

The bands that are still under very heated debate in SA and elsewhere in Africa and the World

2700 - 2900 MHz lots of users, from weather RADAR, S-band RADARS ( civil aviation at small airstrips), civilian RADAR (speed traps), etc
3600 - 3800 MHz Satellite industry make extensive use for BC, VSAT, Civil aviation, earth observation etc. heated international debate

So there you are guys, ONLY one band previously reserved for a service that has died

lots of unused spectrum my eye! the princely total of 40 MHz!!!!
 
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ja but the 100Mhz government services can be freed up if you throw out the government

they can just jam up all other signals when they need it
 
If no spectrum is available then why are the operators waiting for it to be assigned? The primary bands are in the 2.6MHz and 3.5MHz region but more towards the former. Sentech has also been identified as sitting on valuable spectrum in these bands which is not being used. It formerly allowed Screamer to use spectrum in these bands. Vodacom was also reported as being in dealings with iBurst to use some of its spectrum but these quieted down, probably after Sentech's dealings became known. Just over a year ago Telkom was also reported as wanting to hand back large chunks of spectrum in various bands that were not unused but definitely underutilised by superceded technologies like WiMax, fixed broadband, and point to point/multipoint connections. Cell C before launching 3G was sitting on underutilised 900MHz spectrum.

Seems operators are sitting on a lot of unused spectrum from the looks of it.
 
Rickster said:
Why not copy mobile providers in Europe?
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Because African conditions are sufficiently different to those in Europe NOT to follow Europe blindly. And Europe is starting to back track on some of their allocations for mobile already/
 
Swa said:
If no spectrum is available then why are the operators waiting for it to be assigned? The primary bands are in the 2.6MHz and 3.5MHz region but more towards the former. Sentech has also been identified as sitting on valuable spectrum in these bands which is not being used. It formerly allowed Screamer to use spectrum in these bands. Vodacom was also reported as being in dealings with iBurst to use some of its spectrum but these quieted down, probably after Sentech's dealings became known. Just over a year ago Telkom was also reported as wanting to hand back large chunks of spectrum in various bands that were not unused but definitely underutilised by superceded technologies like WiMax, fixed broadband, and point to point/multipoint connections. Cell C before launching 3G was sitting on underutilised 900MHz spectrum.

Seems operators are sitting on a lot of unused spectrum from the looks of it.
Click to expand...

You mean 2.5 GHz and 3.5 GHz.

The analysis I gave you EXCLUDES the bands already allocated for mobile in SA. And yes this IS a debate as to why the existing allocations are not being assigned by ICASA. That debate lies firmly within South Africa, and is what the operators are moaning about . ICASA has been dragging its feet now for more than 5 years!
The 3.4 - 3.6 GHZ WAS exclusively set aside for Wi-Max, which has largely been a commercial failure in SA as well as in many places in the World. What needs to happen is ICASA must re think its allocation to Wi-Max. ----
 
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Wi-Max is an odd one. I didn't expect a commercial failure by this point and it seems largely a case

Point-to-point vs country wide allocation is also a fairly interesting dynamic which shouldn't be ignored in discussions about the assignments used for LTE

As for why the assignment of existing allocations is held up - look to the politicians: and with the VC acquisition of Neotel there is actually a solution that will accomplish the stated objectives
 
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