Titan Hub @ UCT.

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Noxville

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Hi all.

I was recently pointed at this thread: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/306809-Does-anybody-know-the-UCT-hub-address and thought it would be good if I commented directly to clarify the situation so no more rumours are spread.

1) No, ICTS has not kidnapped me.
2) Titan Hub (the oldest DC hub @ UCT) is still around. It was initially moved from my residence room (where it was hosted for 3 years) into the Computer Science 'dungeon' (datacentre). It was hosted there for 2 weeks during December before ICTS started turning off the ports it was hosted on. We asked for clarification on what rules it was breaking, but ICTS are amazing at not replying to emails. This was seven weeks ago.
3) Last year myself and a fellow DC admin called a meeting with ICTS after they started blocking (on the firewall) access to http://dl-list.co.cc/ , our Release Manger. This site breaks no UCT policy yet ICTS deemed it fit to censor it. They brought a fancy looking lawyer with, so we made sure that the meeting lasted longer than an hour. They said they would organise a follow-up meeting within a few weeks. They never did.
4) We are moving the server back to a residence room, as ResNet falls under Student Housing (ICTS still manages this network though), but at least Student Housing (generally) follows their own-, and the university- polices. This should happen sometime today or tomorrow and the default addresses will work.
5) ICTS seems to think that by publishing fantastic lies about piracy (such as the Infamous Piracy Questionaire) they will really change the way people think.
6) The Battle.Net, CS 1.6 and other sundry servers will also resume on this address as it has been for the last 4 years.

Any questions, [email protected]
 
RusBus said:
Wow, ICTS sound like a bunch of idiots
Click to expand...

Well the network infrastrucutre is in place for academic purposes. If it's being saturated with unrelated traffic (mostly illegal content) and there is an option to resolve the issue, I don't see how it's idiotic.
 
*infrastructure

With what certainty do you assert that the content is illegal? I personally only share free and open source material. The 2 biggest sharers do likewise.
and
The network is probably _not_ saturated. But if it was, facts, figures, please.
 
Thanks for the spell check.

Come on, let's be honest. I've used it, I know what's on there. You know what's on there. I'm not doubting you don't share legal and open source content, I'm sure lots of people do. ICTS doesn't mind such, look at LEG for example. But when it's blatantly obvious that it's a platform for huge copyright infringement and counts for a large portion of network traffic, then there is good reason to take steps to discourage it, surely.

We need to look at this from everyone's perspective. Look, I'm all for easy acccess to the latest series and games on campus, but if you put yourself in the people's shoes of those who mantain the core services, the last thing you need (or want) is for your network to be used for sharing of (a lot of, not all) illegal content.

I read a paper/journal last year about an identical situation at an Australian uni. Sony BMG approached the institution on the basis of copyright infringement, and it wasn't pretty as they also had a P2P effort on campus like our DC++ here. I can send you the link if you want it for interest's sake...if I can find it.
 
In the same regard, why don't they block Vula? People have uploaded blatantly illegal material onto it before, allowing others to download it. And whilst we are there, let us just block the internet? The internet is surely "a platform for huge copyright infringement and counts for a large portion of network traffic".

You see, you clearly are not outweighing pro's and con's. Many students use DC primarily for chat. They have friends on it, they use it for planning and socializing. Some people _just_ sit and play trivia on it all day long. Sure, some people share copyrighted material (which is civil case in itself - http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32105%3Apiracy-is-not-a-crime&catid=182%3Alegal-view&Itemid=160) and if the original copyright holder would email me (or any hub admin) with a formal takedown request, we would DEFINITELY ban that user from the network. Until we receive that, who are we to block people?

Oh btw, that link you wanted.. is this it? http://www.zdnet.com.au/afact-loses-iinet-piracy-appeal-case-339310221.htm (Mwa Fishsticks).
 
I'm not saying that these perfectly legit and harmless actions don't take place on DC. But let's face it, the bulk of what's done on DC is share tv series, movies etc. As much as we argue against it, that's the truth. The reason that post existed (What is the UCT HUB address) wasn't because people wanted to chat or do trivia. They wanted the latest movies and episodes of whatever series they're watching.

I would have thought FB would be the most common platform for socialising and planning, but then again I don't live a res life so I'm not informed on that topic.

You said that some people share copyrighted material. And if the original copyright holder asked you to remove it, you would, and would ban the user. Why then are you not banning all users that host copyrighted content, as I'm sure many, many users do?

I've only ever used Vula for course material, so I wasn't aware of it being used for other such purposes.

I see all of your points, and I enjoy free opensource stuff and tv series. I'd be miff if House wasn't available to me every week. Appreciate, thought, the other side of the story.

That article isn't what I was talking about, haven't heard of that story. I'll find the one I was reffering to, should be in lasts years TR references.
 
Sighz0r.

Network congestion? What network congestion? The banning of DC++ (which isn't illegal) only results in exacerbated usage of international bandwidth as many are forced to download duplicate data (legal or otherwise). Frankly, it is not UCT's duty to police copyright infringement. They are a research-led university and that is where their focus should lie. Spending money on useless propaganda and using intimidation tactics on Nox is a blatant misuse of my fees and taxpayers' money.
 
If DC wasn't used for illegal purposes, it wouldn't be a concern.

It is UCT's (ICTS's) duty to "police copyright infringement" as if they do nothing to prevent what they know is happening, then they can be held liable. Policy states that "UCT will hold ICTS accountable and responsible for the effective provision of this service". Therefore ICTS need to recognise this responsibility and act on it.

UCT is a research-led university as you said, as does policy: "Computing and networking play increasingly important roles in teaching, research, and administration. The University anticipates many benefits from the use of information technology by students and staff." So they are trying to ensure it used for these purposes.

The resnet policy says "Students that make use of UCT's network from student residences need to adhere to the above policy and to all relevant SA laws, regulations, and contractual obligations. The use of UCT's technology resources is a privilege which may be revoked if users fail to comply with this policy."

In the list of prohibited activities is:

"Violating the provisions of copyright
Violating any laws or participating in the commission or furtherance of any crime or other unlawful or improper purpose. "

It's all here for everyone to read who uses the network.
Policy is policy, especially when it's decided upon by UICTC.
Anyway my point is being missed, I'm merely painting the other side of the picture. I'm not on anyone's side, just stating some facts.
 
Ok. So you are saying anything that can be used for illegal purposes must be removed from society? Cars deliver drugs. Ban them. Guns kill people. Ban them. Needles are used by drug addicts. Ban them.

What about the internet? People surely use that for illegal purposes, why not ban that as well? Like, you really just aren't looking at the legitimate points I have made. There is true academic value for a filesharing and chat platform.

I don't know what you smoked that would suggest to you that UCT has a duty to "police copyright infringement". As you can probably see above, a civil suit would probably have to launched by the copyright holder to an individual. UCT is an ISP, and as such they can process any takedown request (of any files being shared on the internet). There is no underlying moral obligation for them to wield this mighty whistle.

I agree that academics comes first, but DC definitively doesn't hinder other people doing legitimate work. Maybe if a lab is full a DC user is taking a space that a person could use, but often labs have localized policies on this, in the same way that Facebook and private email isn't allowed in some labs.

Policy-listing doesn't actually show any real substance for your argument. Piracy is not a crime (http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?op...s-not-a-crime&catid=182:legal-view&Itemid=160) , it's probably unlawful, but it does have "proper" merit.

Mwa.
 
The claim that DC is being used for illegal purposes is a baseless one. Last time I checked, ICTS is not the registered copyright owner for anything hosted on any of the hubs. Since you are not the original copyright holder, nor a judge or law enforcement officer, with what authority do you claim that copyright laws have been breached?

According to South African Copyright Law, until a Court (within the Republic) deems that an individual or group has broken copyright law, they have not. Well played.

As such, claiming that DC should be shut down because people use it for illegal means is not only illogical (as shown in Noxville's post) but also totally baseless. Methinks ICTS should focus on matters that they should control rather than playing the morally uptight myopic policy pusher.
 
I am not sure which admin moved this to the section of "Gaming" but that is clearly incorrect.
 
I'm not sure if this is viable or appropriate, but perhaps there's merit for some kind of mass consensus by students? A petition of sorts? After all, it is our tuition money that's paying ICTS and I think we all deserve a say in this matter.

I also think we deserve some transparency on the issue. I'd like ICTS (and UCT senate for that matter), for once, to come out with an official stance on the matter, outlining how they intend to approach the issue.

On another note, I'm getting some advice from admins and members of the Rhodes University DC hub which has been running, fully transparently to the University, for some years now.

This debate has been going on for long enough. Lets make 2011 the year that it is resolved. UCT students, lets unite.
 
camerongf said:
I'm not sure if this is viable or appropriate, but perhaps there's merit for some kind of mass consensus by students? A petition of sorts? After all, it is our tuition money that's paying ICTS and I think we all deserve a say in this matter.

I also think we deserve some transparency on the issue. I'd like ICTS (and UCT senate for that matter), for once, to come out with an official stance on the matter, outlining how they intend to approach the issue.

On another note, I'm getting some advice from admins and members of the Rhodes University DC hub which has been running, fully transparently to the University, for some years now.

This debate has been going on for long enough. Lets make 2011 the year that it is resolved. UCT students, lets unite.
Click to expand...

+1.
 
There isn't really any provision for a "change the rules by mass consensus" in the UCT handbooks; so what you are asking for a full on revolt/march/demonstration/effort. Now, whilst this sounds like an awesome idea (Pirate Bay t-shirts all around), it obviously has to be phrased and targeted in a responsible way. We want the 'common person' to be able to get behind the cause, maybe it can be phrased in a better way?

The debate hasn't really been going on very long, and the little it has been has been away from public spotlight. I think only like 5 people know what really has happened :) But rest assured that the right decisions have been made by the students thusfar.
 
I have to commend you on your responsible handling of this whole affair Noxville. It must be quite intimidating, being in the ICTS headlights like this.

We as UCT students, and loyal Titan users have total faith in your ability to handle this. I just wanted to voice my support of you, and let you know that should you require the assistance of the student body at large, count me in.


On another note, can one of the moderators please move this out of 'Gaming'...
 
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It's really not just me. We have a private mailing group with like 20 dedicated people who (some you can guess, some you can't) have all been doing huge work along the way.

I think maybe if ICTS give us issues in the next few weeks, maybe we should have a call-to-arms.

The varsity does kinda 'owe us one' after last years disaster, but I think their Editor is still the childish brat of past.

I'll speak to some of my SRC and ex-SRC connections.

F_F_S, this isn't gaming wtf.
 
I'd also like to add some advice (just my 2 cents) regarding public opinion of this issue.

You can be assured that ICTS will use anti-piracy propaganda if this thing gets out into the media. I would suggest a preemptive strike in this regard. If you can get your opinions out into the student forum before ICTS launch a media attack you may win the hearts of some of the DC ignorant people on campus. Perhaps you could find a sympathetic writer from Varsity to do a piece.
 
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