Toll road protest

Just found this Cape Argus article. http://www.iolproperty.co.za/roller/news/entry/western_cape_to_oppose_toll

I had no idea they were planning on putting a toll road on the R300. Freaking hell, that's a road that locals use!

And check this: http://roadtonature.org/map.htm

That bottom of the R300 looks too much like it's going to cut through Strandfontein. Faark, it's even called the Strandfontein I/C. I won't have it! Imagine government decides they want to build a freeway that cuts through your home suburb. You'd be pissed off too.

I'm seriously gonna do some more reading up on this.
 
Pitbull said:
I posted this in another thread and I honestly can't understand how educated people like yourselves can't put one and one together :confused:

It's simple ecconomics. If no one uses it because it's too expensive then they will have to drop the price. They will keep dropping the price till people start using the toll roads. Just don't use the toll roads till the rates are exceptable. It's pretty simple I think.
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The price won't drop for the same reason internet prices from telkom aren't dropping. No viable alternative. We can't all stop using the toll roads. Even with the highway still free I tried using the R55 to get to sandton from midrand and it was a nightmare.
 
themba990 said:
The price won't drop for the same reason internet prices from telkom aren't dropping. No viable alternative. We can't all stop using the toll roads. Even with the highway still free I tried using the R55 to get to sandton from midrand and it was a nightmare.
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Telkom have dropped thier prices... just not as fast as everyone else. :p
 
themba990 said:
The price won't drop for the same reason internet prices from telkom aren't dropping. No viable alternative. We can't all stop using the toll roads. Even with the highway still free I tried using the R55 to get to sandton from midrand and it was a nightmare.
Click to expand...

Wait...

Did you actually think about your post before pressing submit? :D

Come now, you can't be serious?
 
Pitbull said:
Wait...

Did you actually think about your post before pressing submit? :D

Come now, you can't be serious?
Click to expand...
Maybe an example will help. Waiting for toll prices to drop through demand and supply forces is like trying to force Eskom to make electricity cheaper by using candles and gas burners
 
themba990 said:
Maybe an example will help. Waiting for toll prices to drop through demand and supply forces is like trying to force Eskom to make electricity cheaper by using candles and gas burners
Click to expand...

Which they will need to do it if a big majority of their clients move from the Eskom grid because of pricing. You know I'm right you are just trying to justify it not being viable to yourself some how. :p
 
Pitbull said:
Which they will need to do it if a big majority of their clients move from the Eskom grid because of pricing. You know I'm right you are just trying to justify it not being viable to yourself some how. :p
Click to expand...

Move from the Eskom grid?

Who's the alternative?
 
Pitbull said:
Obviously giving up some luxuries in the process. Which is exactly the same with this scenario. :o
Click to expand...

Maybe ... depends on what I prioritise.

Solar should be enough for water and computer (I ain't giving up posting here :D). Log fire for warmth. Gas for cooking. Paraffin for lights (love its smell ;)).

I can dream.

Doesn't help me and the tolls though :mad:
 
Just for reference the perspective of toll roads in Australia. It is not just a South African or an ANC issue.

From the outside looking in it doesn't take long before the govt is blamed or called incompetent for everything.

No one likes to pay road tolls, especially when travelling on highways always used to be free, but the reality is that govts will either not keep up with highway infrastructure or they will 'fast track' it with private/govt toll roads. It is done by all countries, and your tolls are amongst the lowest so be grateful for that.

As a comparison, from where I live in Sydney if I used freeway only from home, then to get to the city (or onward to airport) would be (heading east) would be two freeways, one tunnel and harbour bridge, total $13.62 (R100.00) for 39km or $0.35c (R2.56) per km.
Speed limits are variable between 80km-100km/h and in peak travel it would take you over an hour...yes even when you are paying for the privilege--yet still quicker than rat-runs with lots of traffic lights.

Heading southwest in opposite direction , one freeway only $6.92 (R51.00) for 34km or $0.20c (R1.50) per km but this not heading towards CBD or industrial areas for most people i.e to head to Canberra or south west suburbs only.

We all have e-Tags, even the casual driver, because at some stage you will need it. These e-Tags have a minimum auto top up amount of $50, so these companies are at any stage sitting on a deposit of $50 x hundreds of thousands. The e-Tags work on all the toll roads irrespective of who owns/manages it , even if you drive to Melbourne or Brisbane.

We also blame the govt btw....but the ANC can never ever be as incompetent as the NSW Labor govt that has been in power since 1995 (hopefully for only one month more). At the end of the day you choose between unreliable public transport, lots of stress in traffic jams and lights and less stress in slow moving freeway.

I will post it on the 'protest' thread too.
 
OzzieCapie said:
Just for reference the perspective of toll roads in Australia. It is not just a South African or an ANC issue.
<snip>
Click to expand...

Thanks for the perspective but comparing apples to oranges isn't going to work.
The Australian economy is very different from that of South Africa and what seems like reasonable tolls for you are unaffordable for the average South African.
Australia GDP per capita : $ 54,869
South Africa GDP per capita : $ 7,101
Australia unemployment: 5%
South Africa unemployment: 24% (approx)

Another point which angers most people is that we are already paying R2.44 in levies and tax to the government on 1 litre of petrol which is 27% of the retail price (R8.99 in Gauteng for 93 ULP).
That money should be used to maintain and build roads. If it's not enough then the tax on fuel should be increased.
That way everyone pays including the taxis who always seem to get preferential treatment.
Furthermore it doesn't look like the toll fees are going to be ring fenced - there are plans to build other roads which I will not use.
 
Paul_S said:
Thanks for the perspective but comparing apples to oranges isn't going to work.
The Australian economy is very different from that of South Africa and what seems like reasonable tolls for you are unaffordable for the average South African.
Australia GDP per capita : $ 54,869
South Africa GDP per capita : $ 7,101
Australia unemployment: 5%
South Africa unemployment: 24% (approx)
Click to expand...

Just telling you that it is not a SA issue only. It is done throughout the world, and there are choices.

Besides, your apples/oranges analogy isn't really true. GDP per capita ratio is not the same as the ratio of income for car owners. You pay more for your cars both in real terms and in terms of your salary. So you are not complaining that you pay more for cars (because that's not the govt) but having been able to afford that car you complain when paying much less for your tolls.
The unemployed guy who doesn't own a car is not affected by the toll price.

Paul_S said:
Another point which angers most people is that we are already paying R2.44 in levies and tax to the government on 1 litre of petrol which is 27% of the retail price (R8.99 in Gauteng for 93 ULP).
That money should be used to maintain and build roads. If it's not enough then the tax on fuel should be increased.
Click to expand...

Again...no difference to over here and elsewhere in world. Our retail price at moment is around $1.25 (R8.75)
BTW we also pay a hell of a lot more for our registration and third party ...close to $1,000 (R7,000)

Just saying, the tolls which are a choice after all, is lower by proportion to what you are paying for cars, petrol etc when compared to other countries.
 
OzzieCapie said:
Besides, your apples/oranges analogy isn't really true. GDP per capita ratio is not the same as the ratio of income for car owners. You pay more for your cars both in real terms and in terms of your salary. So you are not complaining that you pay more for cars (because that's not the govt) but having been able to afford that car you complain when paying much less for your tolls.
Click to expand...

Okay let me put the figures in a more useful format:

South Africa
Adults earning less than R50000 per annum: 75.4% of population.
Adults earning between R50000 and R300000 per annum: 20.8% of population.
The remaining 3.8 % of the adult population earns 39.4 % of total personal income!
http://allafrica.com/stories/201003010747.html

Those earning less than R50000 per annum are unlikely to own personal vehicles.
Those earning between R50000 and R300000 per annum (emerging middle class) are the ones that own personal transport and are hit the hardest.

Australia
Low income group (10.1% of population): $409 AUD per week (avg) or R155952 per annum
Middle income group (17% of population): $692 AUD per week (avg) or R263856 per annum
High income group (40.5% of population): $1646 AUD per week (avg) or R627636 per annum
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]!opendocument

Although the figure cannot be directly correlated it's pretty clear that the majority of Australians are in the high income group and earn way more than the average South African.
The majority of Australians earn more than double that of a middle income South African.

The unemployed guy who doesn't own a car is not affected by the toll price.
Click to expand...

The unemployed still have to eat and the price of food will increase as a result of the high tolls on transportation.

Just saying, the tolls which are a choice after all, is lower by proportion to what you are paying for cars, petrol etc when compared to other countries.
Click to expand...

I don't see the logic in the argument.
Most South Africans squeeze their budgets in order to afford a car.
By your logic we should be paying higher toll prices because we are ripped off by the car manufacturers?!
 
OzzieCapie said:
Just telling you that it is not a SA issue only. It is done throughout the world, and there are choices.

Besides, your apples/oranges analogy isn't really true. GDP per capita ratio is not the same as the ratio of income for car owners. You pay more for your cars both in real terms and in terms of your salary. So you are not complaining that you pay more for cars (because that's not the govt) but having been able to afford that car you complain when paying much less for your tolls.
The unemployed guy who doesn't own a car is not affected by the toll price.
Click to expand...

? Either my logic is flawed or that is actually in favour of what you are arguing against :confused:

We pay a shyte load already so we cannot afford the tolls even more so.
 
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