Tongaat Hulett Troubles

[airborne]

Capitalism (Tongaat and Steinhoff): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes shareholders, who then hold the people responsible to account for lying.
Socialism(The SA SOE): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes the people who have no choice in their services, then gets endless bailouts by the taxpayer.

Yeah, I would take Capitalism any day because unlike socialism, lying and stealing will eventually get punished.

If you call a slap on the wrist punishment then so be it.

 

[rietrot]

If you call a slap on the wrist punishment then so be it.

You are not required to give any money to any capitalist business. You can freely avoid them if you disagree with how they do business.
You cannot avoid the government or taxes or the government bailing out failing SOEs with your taxes.

 

[airborne]

You are not required to give any money to any capitalist business. You can freely avoid them if you disagree with how they do business.
You cannot avoid the government or taxes or the government bailing out failing SOEs with your taxes.

 

[ForceFate]

You are not required to give any money to any capitalist business. You can freely avoid them if you disagree with how they do business.
You cannot avoid the government or taxes or the government bailing out failing SOEs with your taxes.

Sometimes it's not possible or practical.

 

[krycor]

Capitalism (Tongaat and Steinhoff): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes shareholders, who then hold the people responsible to account for lying.

Socialism(The SA SOE): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes the people who have no choice in their services, then gets endless bailouts by the taxpayer.

Yeah, I would take Capitalism any day because unlike socialism, lying and stealing will eventually get punished.

Same sides of the coin if you ask me. Who’s involved here.. oh look again auditors not doing their job and the incoming ceo smells something off so investigates. Same auditors who are involved in state corruption & capture.. how the hell are auditor firms still operating in SA is what I have to ask.

Wrt Capitalism vs Socialism.. go watch vids on Bill Gates. He is the “best” philanthropist yet even he goes.. why would I want to be president when I can control everything from the outside by buying into gov when needed. The reality is that both systems are pathetic without checks and balances including so called democratic systems which are heavily influenced if you have the funds to do it.

 

[Binary_Bark]

Tongaat Hulett’s Zim Executives Were Cooking Books

A six-month forensic investigation into the finances of Tongaat Hullet carried out by PwC has found that the companies executives overstated profits and assets in its earnings reports. The Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed sugar producer has said it intends to institute civil claims against former top executives, including its ex-CEO and some Zimbabwean executives.

Said the company in a statement:

John Chibwe (Hippo Valley EstatesFinance Director), Michael Deighton (former managing director of THD), Steve Frampton (former Zimbabwe Sugar Sales General Manager), Shelton Nhari (Triangle Finance Director), Sydney Mtsambiwa (former managing director of THL’s Zimbabwean operations), Les Munro (former Finance Executive of Tongaat Hulett SA Sugar), Murray Munro (former Chief Financial Officer of THL), Mr Raphael Pfunye (Zimbabwe Sugar Sales Finance Executive), Sean Slabbert (former Finance Executive of THL); Peter Staude (former Chief Executive Officer of THL).
Disciplinary action has been or is being taken in relation to certain of the senior executives referred to above and other individuals. The Board is considering the institution of civil actions against the senior executives referred to above and other individuals, including, amongst others: actions to recover bonuses and benefits paid to specific executives and other individuals for the relevant periods; and applications to court for orders declaring relevant people to be delinquent directors or otherwise incapable of occupying fiduciary positions.”

Tongaat Hulett's Zim Executives Were Cooking Books

A six-month forensic investigation into the finances of Tongaat Hullet carried out by PwC has found that the companies executives overstated profits and assets in its earnings reports. The Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed sugar producer has said it intends to institute civil claims against...

news.pindula.co.zw

 

[rietrot]

Tongaat Hulett’s Zim Executives Were Cooking Books

A six-month forensic investigation into the finances of Tongaat Hullet carried out by PwC has found that the companies executives overstated profits and assets in its earnings reports. The Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed sugar producer has said it intends to institute civil claims against former top executives, including its ex-CEO and some Zimbabwean executives.

Said the company in a statement:

Tongaat Hulett's Zim Executives Were Cooking Books

A six-month forensic investigation into the finances of Tongaat Hullet carried out by PwC has found that the companies executives overstated profits and assets in its earnings reports. The Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed sugar producer has said it intends to institute civil claims against...

news.pindula.co.zw

Actually this is fraud and criminal not a civil matter. The JSE should step in here and lay criminal charges and assist with the investigation. That is what we are paying them for.

 

[EADC]

Same sides of the coin if you ask me. Who’s involved here.. oh look again auditors not doing their job and the incoming ceo smells something off so investigates. Same auditors who are involved in state corruption & capture.. how the hell are auditor firms still operating in SA is what I have to ask.

Wrt Capitalism vs Socialism.. go watch vids on Bill Gates. He is the “best” philanthropist yet even he goes.. why would I want to be president when I can control everything from the outside by buying into gov when needed. The reality is that both systems are pathetic without checks and balances including so called democratic systems which are heavily influenced if you have the funds to do it.

The most important words are the checks and balances, you are 100% correct.

 

[Binary_Bark]

Tongaat Hulett wants executives to pay back the money

Embattled Tongaat Hulett has taken the far-reaching step of naming key executives who it says were responsible for its fall from grace this year and has vowed to claw back performance bonuses paid to them.

The company’s shares were suspended from the Johannesburg Stock Exchange earlier this year after serious accounting irregularities were discovered.

Chief executive Peter Staude – one of those named – resigned days before the annual general meeting last year and experienced businessman Gavin Hudson was brought in to right the sinking ship. More than 5 000 jobs were cut as Hudson declared that the company would no longer be focussed on sugar production.

Tongaat Hulett wants executives to pay back the money | North Coast Courier

A forensic report ordered by the board into suspect activities has implicated the group's former senior executives of serious accounting irregularities.

northcoastcourier.co.za

 

[jack_spratt]

How can it be hard to make money from sugar?

Sugars in everything

 

[supersunbird]

More than 5 000 jobs were cut as Hudson declared that the company would no longer be focussed on sugar production

What are they focused on then now?

 

[d0b33]

How can it be hard to make money from sugar?

Sugars in everything

Probably going to be cheaper to import.

 

[zippy]

Capitalism (Tongaat and Steinhoff): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes shareholders, who then hold the people responsible to account for lying.
Socialism(The SA SOE): Corrupt management + dodgy accounting + lack of shareholder oversight = bankrupt business that punishes the people who have no choice in their services, then gets endless bailouts by the taxpayer.

Yeah, I would take Capitalism any day because unlike socialism, lying and stealing will eventually get punished.

When a business goes bankrupt, the shareholders lose everything and management has already looted everything, including pension funds. They are seldom held to account. They get bad press, which lasts as long the news cycle or something else grabs the attention in media and social networks. Sometime later they land a cushy job elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. They rely on suckers who think they got punished to perpetuate the environment so that they can move on to the next “job”

Fraud, failure and bankruptcy pay well for CEOs

About a third of highly paid CEOs over the past 20 years have led their companies to failure, bankruptcy or fraud, according to a new study., Al Lewis reports.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[R13...]

How can it be hard to make money from sugar?

Sugars in everything

Prices have not been very good. Must also be too expensive to make sugar. And that CEO of theirs is apparently a bit of a jerk.

 

[konfab]

When a business goes bankrupt, the shareholders lose everything and management has already looted everything, including pension funds. They are seldom held to account. They get bad press, which lasts as long the news cycle or something else grabs the attention in media and social networks. Sometime later they land a cushy job elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. They rely on suckers who think they got punished to perpetuate the environment so that they can move on to the next “job”

If people choose to invest their pensions in companies that they don't understand, who is to blame?
I don't give my hard earned savings to some skelm to spend on rubbish.

 

[krycor]

If people choose to invest their pensions in companies that they don't understand, who is to blame?
I don't give my hard earned savings to some skelm to spend on rubbish.

Uhm there are two things you missing here..
1. Companies still have contractually "forced" pension/provident fund schemes in their employment contracts along with forced ranges.
2. Pension/RA schemes do not allow you to choose which funds u invest in.. this is for the fund manager. If you push for info you can eventually get a snapshot for the moment but this changes pending their strategy. Kinda why Steinhoff was in many pension funds but at the same time their exposure is regulated this the pain felt is reduced if they are truly "active" fund managers and worth their fees.

 

[konfab]

Uhm there are two things you missing here..
1. Companies still have contractually "forced" pension/provident fund schemes in their employment contracts along with forced ranges.
2. Pension/RA schemes do not allow you to choose which funds u invest in.. this is for the fund manager. If you push for info you can eventually get a snapshot for the moment but this changes pending their strategy. Kinda why Steinhoff was in many pension funds but at the same time their exposure is regulated this the pain felt is reduced if they are truly "active" fund managers and worth their fees.

So there is a lack of choice. And why is that the case?
It couldn't be the government's fault in absolutely robbing people of their investments if they don't invest them in one of these schemes. But no, the government and its laws regulating people's money are perfect. It must be capitalism...

The company I work for had a RA thingie. I chose to make zero contributions to it because I like to have some choice on who manages my money. I would rather take the tax free investment of paying off my house than trust some slimey pension fund manager with my money.

 

[rietrot]

Uhm there are two things you missing here..
1. Companies still have contractually "forced" pension/provident fund schemes in their employment contracts along with forced ranges.
2. Pension/RA schemes do not allow you to choose which funds u invest in.. this is for the fund manager. If you push for info you can eventually get a snapshot for the moment but this changes pending their strategy. Kinda why Steinhoff was in many pension funds but at the same time their exposure is regulated this the pain felt is reduced if they are truly "active" fund managers and worth their fees.

Those limitations are because of government regulations, and let me geuss your fix would require more government?

 

[Binary_Bark]

Tongaat Hulett in talks with JSE to lift share suspension despite persistent losses

Tongaat Hulett’s [JSE:TON] shares could be back for investors to trade on the JSE next month, as the company is due to release its financial statements for the six-months ended September 30 on Friday.

The embattled sugar producer asked the JSE to suspend its shares from the main bourse in June 2019 after it uncovered accounting irregularities that resulted in inflated assets and profits. Its shares were also suspended on the London Stock Exchange. The company asked the JSE in December to postpone lifting the suspension, saying it needed more time to analyse its numbers.

On Wednesday, Tongaat released an update on the outstanding results, warning shareholders to expect up to R327m in losses for the six months to September 2019.

“It was expected that the suspension would be lifted once the company had released its trading statement for the six-month period ended 30 September 2019. Accordingly, the board has entered into discussions with the JSE to request the lifting of the suspension of its shares, potentially in the first week of February 2020,” said Tongaat in an update to shareholders.

Tongaat Hulett in talks with JSE to lift share suspension despite persistent losses | Business

The embattled sugar producer expects a headline loss of between R303m and R327m and for the six months ended September 30, 2019.

www.fin24.com

 

[Binary_Bark]

All eyes on Tongaat as shares resume trading

The trade of Tongaat shares will resume on the JSE on Monday 3 February, and it’s likely that shareholders will be in for a roller-coaster ride.

The share was suspended at the request of Tongaat management in June 2019 at R13.20 after falling 65% after the company warned in March 2019 that results may need to be restated. But the share had been in freefall since January 2017 when investors, weary of Tongaat’s decade-long poor performance, began to sell out.

The JSE agreed to lift the suspension after the company released its results for the six months to September 30 2019.

A great deal of work has been done since former CEO Peter Staude retired in September 2018. He retired as allegations of financial gerrymandering at the 127-year-old company were increasing.


A new chairman, Louis von Zeuner, was appointed to the board in December 2018, new CEO Gavin Hudson in January 2019 and CFO Rob Aitken in March 2019. Finally, in November 2019, audit firm PwC, which was hired to investigate the financials, submitted a report that accused former executives of overstating accounts and assets; at the same time, the new management team developed and began to implement a full turnaround plan at Tongaat, while governance processes and controls were materially revised. By implication, the latest set of results can be trusted.

Which is not to say that investors will be piling back into the share.

Long-time Tongaat shareholder and Durban son, Chris Logan, whose first job as an articled clerk was at Tongaat, will not be buying shares in any great hurry. He sold out of the company at R90.00 and plans to stay on the sidelines for a little longer.

“This is a business with R4-billion of negative equity and R13-billion of debt on the balance sheet which means it’s effectively bankrupt,” he says.

BUSINESS MAVERICK: All eyes on Tongaat as shares resume trading

The financial engineering at Tongaat was nothing like that at Steinhoff, but still, the new management team and the new board have their work cut out to restore the company’s reputation in the eyes of investors.

www.dailymaverick.co.za