Too white to study medicine

[Geriatrix]

I read a couple of days ago on Reddit that people with foreign law experience is a hot commodity in the US at the moment.

Linky?

 

[Kloofvreter]

I will from now on ONLY see white doctors.

 

[Kloofvreter]

This is what I have done and I am smiling all the way. South Africa and sub Sahara is for blacks. The sooner you figure that out the better for you and your family.

I have as little sense of patriotism towards SA as you

 

[burn]

She applied at one of the top firms in Cape Town and was told they only employ previously disadvantaged people so it does have to do with skin colour.

May I emphasis the one.

Not to play down anything that has gone against your friend but I know a couple of white males who recently got through to big sized law firms with really the bare minimum marks to get through their course. If she really did apply to 39 firms and none of them accepted at least an interview with her, well then there is probably something wrong on her side. If all 39 came out and told her its because of her race, well then fine its not her fault but most of the big firms will at least notify a candidate of rejection, regardless of the grounds, if their CVs stood out.

Agreed. A large number of white people are getting jobs as CA's. Go check out the people writing the admission exams if you don't trust me.

 

[burn]

Ok how many white females have joined firms since all I've heard is white males getting jobs?

I wouldn't be surprised if the junior ranks of the profession are majority female (the majority being white). This is just my impression from what I've seen at admission lectures and the breakdown of females in my graduating class (which was 63% female, if I recall correctly).

There simple are not enough previously disadvantaged South African law graduates to fill all the spots at every firm in South Africa. In my graduating class there where 4 black South African, which is shocking.

 

[waynegohl]

May I emphasis the one.



Agreed. A large number of white people are getting jobs as CA's. Go check out the admission exams if you don't trust me.

Yes that particular firm told her they employ yada yada and the rest "I have applied at 39 firms across SA since this January, and have either been sent immediate (i.e. no interview or anything) automated rejection letters, or have been ignored - I am not sure which is worse."

That ONE replied to her the rest did not say anything or rejected her application outright.

 

[burn]

Yes that particular firm told her they employ yada yada and the rest "I have applied at 39 firms across SA since this January, and have either been sent immediate (i.e. no interview or anything) automated rejection letters, or have been ignored - I am not sure which is worse."

That ONE replied to her the rest did not say anything or rejected her application outright.

Ah, then it is clearly her race and sex that is the problem. How could there be any other explanation?

Oh but wait. There are white CAs in South Africa. How could this be?

Sorry for the sarcastic tone but you really are jumping to unfounded conclusions.

 

[Naks]

applies just as well to SA

 

[Wise_Intelligence]

....

 

[waynegohl]

Ah, then it is clearly her race and sex that is the problem. How could there be any other explanation?

Oh but wait. There are white CAs in South Africa. How could this be?

Sorry for the sarcastic tone but you really are jumping to unfounded conclusions.

where did I jump to a conclusion?

 

[waynegohl]

If a large number of whites are being employed with the bare minimum of marks, then where are those whites going with top marks?

 

[TheHiveMind]

applies just as well to SA


View attachment 22154

We were not on the bottom when we arrived.

 

[burn]

I have to cut and paste as my friend cannot post in CA.

This is her story:

I can completely relate to this poor girl. I myself completed high school with an average of above 80%, have a BA at UCT and an LLB at UCT. I have been accepted to do a Master's in Law at UCT next year. I have nowhere to go once I complete it.

I have applied at 39 firms across SA since this January, and have either been sent immediate (i.e. no interview or anything) automated rejection letters, or have been ignored - I am not sure which is worse. This is despite the fact that, putting aside any humility, my CV is darn impressive. I have bursaries, have been in the top section of my class every year (at UCT, this is called making it onto the "Dean's Merit List", a place for the highest achievers to be recognised every year), have had a legal article published and so on. I am no dodo. Yet I must watch people who I know have barely scraped through, or have repeated subjects/years of their LLB getting into one of the Big 5 law firms of the country, whilst I can't even get an interview! I have looked on the websites of some of the very big firms, and they brag that they ensure something between 50% - 70% of their candidate attorney's must be "previously disadvantaged". That leaves a tiny window open for people who are CURRENTLY disadvantaged, and I have a feeling this is reserved for "insiders" (e.g. people with connections, like through family members and so on). I know this is not a matter of my not having what it takes, because I have been asked to please apply to the infamous Bain & Co, Mitt Romney's American-based company. So the American's will have me, but my own people wont?

This is not just my problem either. My friends are in the same boat - first generation (so I don't see how they were previously advantaged either) educated whites with good grades and no connections who have no place to go. One is toying with the idea of teaching English in a 3rd world country - with a law degree under her belt!

where did I jump to a conclusion?

See the bolded bit. How was the conclusion that race determines where one will get a job or not. I see any evidence making the connection.

Yes, it can be tough but giving up and blaming it on your race is misguided.

 

[Wise_Intelligence]

....

 

[waynegohl]

Blaming race misguided, surely you jest?

"I wanted to apply to the Cape Bar to do pupillage (i.e. training to become an advocate) and she told me that I should not bother because I am white. She said those words EXACTLY - "you should not bother because you are white". She was very honest about it, and said that the fact I am a woman makes no difference whatsoever. So I did not bother and that's when I started applying to my 39 firms for candidacy to be an attorney instead."

 

[Wise_Intelligence]

....

 

[Stefanmuller]

I got 85% in matric with all the right subjects and was rejected at UCT and Stellenbosch. Proceeded to do B.Sc Life Sciences which is basically identical to first year medical. Applied every year after that up untill completing my honours in psychology. Three universities rejected every year - some previously disadvantaged matric student or matric nerd who got 95% obviously knows more and will make a better doctor that someone with a bit of life experience and two on topic degrees and who really wants to.

Doing CA now. Not my interest but at least there are still jobs. Just a hectic amount of work to qualify. What I find strange is there are very little, almost no black CA's but yet I would say there are about 80% non white writing exams.

If I could choose again I would have rather studied towards CA straight from school while being a student, if I knew I would be wasting 5 years of my life. Interst wise, if not medicine, engineering.

 

[burn]

Blaming race misguided, surely you jest?

"I wanted to apply to the Cape Bar to do pupillage (i.e. training to become an advocate) and she told me that I should not bother because I am white. She said those words EXACTLY - "you should not bother because you are white". She was very honest about it, and said that the fact I am a woman makes no difference whatsoever. So I did not bother and that's when I started applying to my 39 firms for candidacy to be an attorney instead."

Unfortunately my knowledge of pupillage is very limited, however I do often work with an white advocate that finished her pupillage last year. Maybe the criteria have changed this year.

Did your friend apply this year for positions starting next year? Because many firms fill these positions a couple years in advance and probably only have positions for BEE candidates available at this time. As, and because of the blatant educational inequality in our country, they are hard to come by.

Also, 39 firms seems like a bad strategy. I am not sure I could name 39 firms. My strategy was to target firms that I had an interest in. After doing research on each firm, I wrote very personalized cover letters and customized my CV accordingly. Of the 8 or 9 firms I applied to, I got 4 interviews and an offer from the one I wanted the most. The others I didn't hear from, it happens, and I'm sure it happens irrespective of race.

Again, I believe that putting the blame solely on race is misguided.

 

[waynegohl]

Could you please provide us with a link. All this copying and pasting is confusing.

Did your friend apply to any firms in Gauteng or Kzn?

I can start a thread in off topic for her to respond to all of you but not sure if it would work and she is at UCT for an awards presentation, I will see what I can do tomorrow maybe.

What link are you after?

 

[waynegohl]

Unfortunately my knowledge of pupillage is very limited, however I do often work with an white advocate that finished her pupillage last year. Maybe the criteria have changed this year.

Did your friend apply this year for positions starting next year? Because many firms fill these positions a couple years in advance and probably only have positions for BEE candidates available at this time. As, and because of the blatant educational inequality in our country, they are hard to come by.

Also, 39 firms seems like a bad strategy. I am not sure I could name 39 firms. My strategy was to target firms that I had an interest in. After doing research on each firm, I wrote very personalized cover letters and customized my CV accordingly. Of the 8 or 9 firms I applied to, I got 4 interviews and an offer from the one I wanted the most. The others I didn't hear from, it happens, and I'm sure it happens irrespective of race.

Again, I believe that putting the blame solely on race is misguided.

As far as I know it was not her strategy to apply to 39 firms, she had to apply because of the other rejections and not hearing from others.