Traffic Blitz-Know your rights

[noxibox]

should first focus on getting people to drive like humans in traffic then go after the casual speeders.

They wont though, as one is more profitable than the other. Let no-one tell you that the safety of the people using the roads is the metro departments first priority.

Speed enforcement, specifically by camera, is only about making money.

In the UK they took the traffic authorities to court and compelled them to only place them at accident spots as well as making the cameras easily visible.

Normally, here and elsewhere, mobile and fixed cameras are placed based on how much they can earn at a location rather than any safety concerns.

And the UK has found that lower speeds and getting people to drive at those speeds has not reduced the road deaths. If we want to reduce road deaths in South Africa we need better trained drivers and vehicles in proper working order.

 

[noxibox]

SA cops seems to be concentrating on revenue generating schemes such as speeding and not enforcing any other law.

Or, very popular in small towns, fining motorcycle riders because their number plates aren't big enough.

I never understand why some riders actually bother to stop when they try to pull them over.

 

[noxibox]

Yes, obeying the speed limit is a very rare sight in SA indeed.

Hence the speed limit is wrong.

 

[IanC]

If we want to reduce road deaths in South Africa we need better trained drivers and vehicles in proper working order.

Amen!

... but I would like to add, that we need better and consistent enforcement of ALL traffic law, not just that which generates revenue. This needs to be done from pedestrians upwards.

How many times have any of you:
1. Had a pedestrian step into the road as though they're immortal and had to swerve violently to avoid them?
2 Seen a pedestrian aimlessly wandering along a motorway?
3. (My own personal favourite) Had a pedestrian cross the motorway in front of you?

 

[noxibox]

The best 30 stops from 100km/h they could get using a Honda Fireblade(1000cc Superbike) had an average of 38.3510m in 2.9287sec and with a deceleration of -0.9713 G's

Under 20m is impossible. To achieve that you'd have to decelerate in excess of 44.5m/s^2 - over 4g. The best you could achieve is probably 13m/s^2 deceleration - and this is extreme, some a professional could manage. It would take you 3.4s to come to a stop. Assuming you react almost instantly we'll call it 4s including time before you apply the brakes. Then you'd be able to do it in 96m. If you have zero reaction time it would drop to about 74m. Someone good, but a normal rider could manage to decelerate at 7.5m/s^2 - they'd come to a stop in about 7s and travel about 170m.

We shouldn't compare sportbikes to sports cars simply because the price difference means a superbike should be compared to an average car under R150k.

I'm also not sure if cars like the M3 maintain their good results as the speeds increase. The tests I saw involved a Porsche, a Ferrari, a Lambourghini, then various normal road cars, some of which were on the sporty end.

 

[StrongTurd]

That's a sin that would earn you a fine in most European countries. If you hog the middle lane in the UK you are liable to 3 points on your licence and an £80 fine (same as for speeding) ... the charge would be obstructing the flow of traffic.

Your comment is so wrong that I don't even know where to begin! Did you read what I said? I always set my cruise control at 115 km/h in the middle lane. You call that a sin! So what speed exactly do you propose that I travel in the centre lane of the highway when the posted limit is 120 km/h?

At least this discussion has given me a bit of insight into what goes on between the ears of those idiots that try to park their cars inside my boot when I'm merely obeying the rules of the road.

@ noxibox: Whatever your opinion is WRT the law is irrelevant. You are still bound by it. You cannot decide which laws you like and then only abide by those while ignoring all the other ones that vex you. Do you think I like paying taxes when I see how the powers that be mismanage my money? Yet do I have any choice? The law is the law, buddy.

 

[noxibox]

How many times have any of you:
1. Had a pedestrian step into the road as though they're immortal and had to swerve violently to avoid them?
2 Seen a pedestrian aimlessly wandering along a motorway?
3. (My own personal favourite) Had a pedestrian cross the motorway in front of you?

Swerve? I only swerve when I'm on a motorcycle - only because it isn't really feasible to run them down without falling - I've taken a fall because of such an idiot, and had a few near ones. In a car I'll just run them down, although I will try to slow down before I hit them.

I have no issue with not using pedestrian crossings and lights to cross, I think everyone should know how cross without resorting to them, but pedestrians need to demonstrate some basic observation and motor skills. Maybe we should make pedestrians get a license to walk.

Or maybe if we just run down every idiot pedetrian we can clean up the gene pool

 

[noxibox]

Your comment is so wrong that I don't even know where to begin! Did you read what I said? I always set my cruise control at 115 km/h in the middle lane. You call that a sin! So what speed exactly do you propose that I travel in the centre lane of the highway when the posted limit is 120 km/h?

You're only supposed to use the centre lane for overtaking. If that is what you're doing then no problem, otherwise you're not supposed to be in the centre lane. Three lane highways have one left lane and two overtaking lanes.

Whatever your opinion is WRT the law is irrelevant. You are still bound by it. You cannot decide which laws you like and then only abide by those while ignoring all the other ones that vex you. Do you think I like paying taxes when I see how the powers that be mismanage my money? Yet do I have any choice? The law is the law, buddy.

The law isn't the law. It's called civil disobedience. You are equally allowed to refuse to pay taxes and take the consequences if you get caught just as some of us refuse to obey arbitrary speed limits and pay the consequences if we get caught.

Now maybe you would have turned in escaped slaves or turned Jews over to the Nazis because the law is the law, but me I would have helped them because the law was wrong.

At least this discussion has given me a bit of insight into what goes on between the ears of those idiots that try to park their cars inside my boot when I'm merely obeying the rules of the road.

This has nothing to do with speeding. Driving excessively close is a separate issue.

 

[IanC]

Your comment is so wrong that I don't even know where to begin!

Ah, so the two coppers who pulled my mate and myself (I was the passenger) off the M42, round Birmingham, didn't know what they were talking about?

Sorry, but I'll put my faith in the UK traffic coppers and the UK's "finest" judges

Did you read what I said? I always set my cruise control at 115 km/h in the middle lane. You call that a sin!

Yes I did read your statement and yes I still call middle lane hogging a sin. Cruise control is something to be used with care and shouldn't be used in heavy traffic.

So what speed exactly do you propose that I travel in the centre lane of the highway when the posted limit is 120 km/h?

You should drive appropriate to the road and traffic conditions ... and not switch off your brain with cruise control (especially in heavy traffic.)

 

[IanC]

In a car I'll just run them down, although I will try to slow down before I hit them.

Yeah, it mitigates the damage to the vehicle.

Maybe we should make pedestrians get a license to walk.

Nah, but bringing back the jay-walking fines would be welcome, as well as proper enforcement of the traffic law wrt pedestrian crossings ala Europe.

/EDIT: Making sure there were no pedestrians on the motorways would be quite welcome as well.

Or maybe if we just run down every idiot pedetrian we can clean up the gene pool

Darwinian road law ... hmmmm

 

[noxibox]

There are petty laws and there are big laws. Some people will obey every dictate blindly. These people are popular in police states.

I know there are theories that if people are allowed to get away with small crimes everyone will think big crimes are OK too, but it is disputable. Are we to believe that if people think ignoring the speed limit is OK they're going to then figure murder is probably OK too? Speeder today, murderer tomorrow?

I don't run red lights, I don't ignore stop streets, I use my indicators, because all these things serve a clear purpose. It is however demonstrable that speed limits are completely arbitrary - it doesn't even make sense to have one national road limit for all types of vehicles. I know how long it takes to stop my vehicle, I adjust according to whether there are likely to be children and animals around, the road conditions - I simply don't care what speed limit some bureaucrat pulled out of their ass.

Civil disobedience is a good thing. If the authorities will not change a bad law it is our duty to make that law unenforceable by breaking it en masse.

 

[noxibox]

Nah, but bringing back the jay-walking fines would be welcome, as well as proper enforcement of the traffic law wrt pedestrian crossings ala Europe.

If someone is a skilled road crosser then leave them alone. There's no reason to force someone with basic human co-ordination to cross at a designated location or wait for a crossing light. Some roads though are uncrossable without assistance - like the 8 lane Champs Elysee.

They should fine motorists who ignore pedestrian crossings.

 

[noxibox]

No matter how attentive you are there are situations where an accident will occur. How fast you are travelling will have a direct effect on wether you survive or not.

It has a non-linear correlation to an accident being fatal. On a motorcycle the speed above which your chances of dying become almost 100% is not that high so if you're going to ride you might as well ride fast.

Most car fatalities do not happen at very high speeds.

 

[IanC]

If someone is a skilled road crosser then leave them alone. There's no reason to force someone with basic human co-ordination to cross at a designated location or wait for a crossing light. Some roads though are uncrossable without assistance - like the 8 lane Champs Elysee.

Not sure I entirely agree with that, because everyone thinks they have basic human co-ordination when it's clear they don't.

They should fine motorists who ignore pedestrian crossings.

Agree absolutely, but I would change motorists to "any road user" ... after you've been slotted by a bicycle courier in London a few times, you'll understand .

 

[IanC]

Most car fatalities do not happen at very high speeds.

With the Euro NCAP Safety Test, anything above 40 mph (64 kph) you're pretty much in uncharted territory.

 

[StrongTurd]

It has a non-linear correlation to an accident being fatal. On a motorcycle the speed above which your chances of dying become almost 100% is not that high so if you're going to ride you might as well ride fast.

Typical biker mentality.

I've got an interesting little story for you: About four years ago I was driving into Pretoria using the Joburg International highway at about 10pm. Naturally I was using the left hand lane doing about 110 km/h like I normally do. The road was almost devoid of traffic. While passing the Monument Park Country Club I was passed by a biker doing some obscene speed. If you're going to ride you might as well go fast, right? Thinking nothing of it I continued on my merry way.

A short few minutes later as I approached the Fountains circle I had another encounter with that same biker. This time, however, he looked a bit different. His bike was kind of merged with a little Citi Golf that he had t-boned. He himself was lying a considerable distance away in a big puddle of blood. The weird part was that his body was now sans head. The last thing I saw of him was his head some distance away, still wearing its helmet, now staring spookily at me.

This in itself was of little consequence to me (albeit gruesome). We are responsible for the consequences of our own actions, after all. What did upset me, though, was that the people in the Citi Golf looked much the worse for wear too. Now that's very sad. I'm not saying that the driver of that vehicle was innocent. Who knows, maybe he jumped the light? Still, had the bike been moving at a sane speed then far fewer lifes would have been affected by one man's indulgence.

As you might know, every doubling of an object's speed quadruples its kintetic energy. That's the main problem with reckless idiots using the road as their own racetrack.

 

[MeNeZ]

I got a R400 fine for doing 80 in a 60 zone

The camera operator had a bloody sniper position overlooking a downhill which leads to a bridge. Even freewheeling you have to brake to keep it under 60 and the cops know where the sweetspot is.

My point is you only know you got caught weeks after the incident because the cop was hiding in a damn tree! imagine how many times on the work this has happened.

(obviously)If I saw the camera, I wouldnt have sped. Simple, like in the UK the cameras are yellow and it even shows on your GPS and tells you to slow down if over 40mph...which keeps speeds down.

The way they hide in bushes is rude and clearly a money making scheme even though the minister of transport denies it...

 

[supersunbird]

The faster you go, the more likely you will die, which is good cause who wants to be a mangled person costing their family lots of R's...

 

[nocilah]

Speeding is fun when done responsibly? How's that for an oxymoron!

um ever heard of a raceway?

or are you still living in 1959?

 

[nocilah]

Typical biker mentality.

I've got an interesting little story for you: About four years ago I was driving into Pretoria using the Joburg International highway at about 10pm. Naturally I was using the left hand lane doing about 110 km/h like I normally do. The road was almost devoid of traffic. While passing the Monument Park Country Club I was passed by a biker doing some obscene speed. If you're going to ride you might as well go fast, right? Thinking nothing of it I continued on my merry way.

A short few minutes later as I approached the Fountains circle I had another encounter with that same biker. This time, however, he looked a bit different. His bike was kind of merged with a little Citi Golf that he had t-boned. He himself was lying a considerable distance away in a big puddle of blood. The weird part was that his body was now sans head. The last thing I saw of him was his head some distance away, still wearing its helmet, now staring spookily at me.

This in itself was of little consequence to me (albeit gruesome). We are responsible for the consequences of our own actions, after all. What did upset me, though, was that the people in the Citi Golf looked much the worse for wear too. Now that's very sad. I'm not saying that the driver of that vehicle was innocent. Who knows, maybe he jumped the light? Still, had the bike been moving at a sane speed then far fewer lifes would have been affected by one man's indulgence.

As you might know, every doubling of an object's speed quadruples its kintetic energy. That's the main problem with reckless idiots using the road as their own racetrack.

an bear in mind the idiots who drive 60km/h are just as reckless as the ones who drive 240KM/h (on the highway)

I maintain speeding is fun when done responsily, because believe it or not there are places that exist for such wants where the only person at risk is the driver.