Turkey siezes four Russian ships

[LazyLion]

http://beta.iol.co.za/news/world/turkey-seizes-four-russian-ships-1956028

 

[Dave]

Not quite as serious as the headline makes it seem.

The Turkish authorities seized the four Russian-flagged ships due to lack of documents, of which three left Turkey after completing necessary papers, while the rest one is still seized, the port management stated.

 

[Xarog]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...blasts-moscow-brandishing-rocket-launcher-str

Exactly a week ago, we warned that Turkey does have one trump card when it comes to dealing with an angry Russian bear that’s hell bent on making life miserable for Ankara in the wake of Erdogan’s brazen move to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border. Turkey, we explained, could move to close the Bosphorus Strait, cutting one of Moscow’s key supply lines to Latakia.

We went on to explain, that such a move would probably be illegal based on the 1936 Montreux Convention, but as Sputnik noted, "in times of war, the passage of warships shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish government."

Obviously, Turkey and Russia haven’t formally declared war on one another, but the plane “incident” marked the first time a NATO member has engaged a Russian or Soviet aircraft in more than six decades and given the gravity of that escalation, one would hardly put it past Erdogan to start interfering with Moscow’s warships, especially if it means delaying their arrival in Syria where the Russians are on the verge of restoring an Assad government that’s Turkey despises.

Well sure enough, the tit-for-tat mutual escalation that’s ensued since the Su-24 crash has spilled over into the maritime arena with Moscow and Ankara detaining each other's ships.

After five Turkish vessels were held at the port of Novorossiysk for “inspections,” Turkey retaliated on Friday by holding four Russian ships at the Black Sea port of Samsun. The following table reveals a hilarious list of the Russian vessels’ alleged infractions which apparently include fire safety violations, pollution prevention violations, and problems with “life saving appliances.”:

 

[Grant]

The following table reveals a hilarious list of the Russian vessels’ alleged infractions which apparently include fire safety violations, pollution prevention violations, and problems with “life saving appliances.”:

not so sure what is so hilarious about any of those infractions
the hedge sounds more & more like a putin propaganda agency every day

 

[Space_Chief]

Closing the Strait of Bosphorus would be painful for Russia.

 

[Xarog]

not so sure what is so hilarious about any of those infractions
the hedge sounds more & more like a putin propaganda agency every day

Then why is this in the article?

And while Turkey now appears content to harrass Russian cargo vessels, one shouldn't discount the possibility that Erodgan will look to do something more provocative now that it looks like the UN will ultimately be dragged into the ISIS oil smuggling debate.

Indeed, Moscow seems to be taking the Bosphorus issue quite seriously because as Hurriyet reported just hours ago, when the Russian warship Caesar Kunikov made its way through the strait on Saturday, a Russian soldier stood on deck with a shoulder ground-to-air missile at the ready.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu's response: "For a Russian soldier to display a rocket launcher or something similar while passing on a Russian warship is a provocation. If we perceive a threatening situation, we will give the necessary response."" Indeed.

And meanwhile, three NATO warships have dropped anchor off Istanbul’s Sarayburnu coast: Portugal's F-334 NRP Francisco de Almeida, Spain’s F-105 ESPS Blaz de Lezo, and Canada's FFG-338 HMCS Winnipeg.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Don't mess with the Russians. Heroically they have not sliced off their balls to appease the rabid, vapid left. They still have a culture invested in protecting itself from annihilation. Wonderful, proud people.

Over 100 million white people who won't bend to self destruction is a pretty good bet to rely on. Don't mess with the Russians.

 

[FNfal]

This is not good .
In this situation a full out war could start , it just takes one fool to make a mistake and away it will go.
These fools light one another up with their missile lock on and some thing happens , not good .
They are both playing a very dangerous game .

 

[Jola]

Yes, and if that fool on the deck with the missile even tries to point it somewhere, he will disappear in a cloud of red mist. Pretty sure he was in a few snipers' sights.

Actually quite stupid to have him on deck.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ru...ssile.aspx?pageID=238&nID=92121&NewsCatID=341

"The showing off of a missile by a soldier on a Russian warship, or other things such as anti-aircraft weapons, is pure provocation. I hope that this is an isolated case. It is not the right approach,” he said.

 

[Xarog]

Yes, and if that fool on the deck with the missile even tries to point it somewhere, he will disappear in a cloud of red mist. Pretty sure he was in a few snipers' sights.

Actually stupid to have him on deck.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ru...ssile.aspx?pageID=238&nID=92121&NewsCatID=341

Yes, because Turkey really is going to start a war with Russia over a Russian soldier standing on a Russian ship holding a rocket launcher in a provocative manner in international waters.

 

[Grant]

Then why is this in the article?

why is exactly what in the article ?

 

[Jola]

Yes, because Turkey really is going to start a war with Russia over a Russian soldier standing on a Russian ship holding a rocket launcher in a provocative manner in international waters.

Turkey are not the provocative party here.

 

[Xarog]

why is exactly what in the article ?

The part that I quoted in the rest of my post.

Here it is again:

And while Turkey now appears content to harrass Russian cargo vessels, one shouldn't discount the possibility that Erodgan will look to do something more provocative now that it looks like the UN will ultimately be dragged into the ISIS oil smuggling debate.

Indeed, Moscow seems to be taking the Bosphorus issue quite seriously because as Hurriyet reported just hours ago, when the Russian warship Caesar Kunikov made its way through the strait on Saturday, a Russian soldier stood on deck with a shoulder ground-to-air missile at the ready.

Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu's response: "For a Russian soldier to display a rocket launcher or something similar while passing on a Russian warship is a provocation. If we perceive a threatening situation, we will give the necessary response."" Indeed.

And meanwhile, three NATO warships have dropped anchor off Istanbul’s Sarayburnu coast: Portugal's F-334 NRP Francisco de Almeida, Spain’s F-105 ESPS Blaz de Lezo, and Canada's FFG-338 HMCS Winnipeg.

With emphasis this time.

 

[Xarog]

Turkey are not the provocative party here.

Irrelevant.

 

[Jola]

Irrelevant.

In the same way that Russia was also the provocative party in the SU-24 episode, by bombing the Turkmens against Turkish advice ?

So you think that the Russians are trying to provoke another incident ?

 

[Grant]

The part that I quoted in the rest of my post.

Here it is again:

With emphasis this time.

irrelevant





but in 1 word: subterfuge

 

[mika1000]

i really think turkey's messing with the wrong country, nato member or not, since turkey's the aggressor nato would keep their distance if russia hit back

 

[Jola]

i really think turkey's messing with the wrong country, nato member or not, since turkey's the aggressor nato would keep their distance if russia hit back

Don't think so, Russia has been very provocative.

If they attack Turkey it will be WW3.

 

[Xarog]

irrelevant





but in 1 word: subterfuge

Ok, so because ZH calls the Turkish reasons for detaining the Russian ships when it was obviously a response to the Russians doing the same thing to the Turkish ships "hilarious", they're now guilty of being a Putin propaganda agency, all the while them mentioning quite openly the provocative behaviour that Russia is engaging in is "irrelevant".

In the same way that Russia was also the provocative party in the SU-24 episode, by bombing the Turkmens against Turkish advice ?

So you think that the Russians are trying to provoke another incident ?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...er-predicted-erdogan-would-declare-war-russia

Society needs whistleblowers. They serve as a check on corruption and governmental overreach and in the private sector, they are often the only thing that stands between unbridled corporate greed and the otherwise clueless masses.

As Edward Snowden demonstrated, even the most “developed” of nations need checks on government and that goes double in places like Turkey, where an autocracy is masquerading as a largely developed democracy.

Despite the fact that Erdogan has managed to create an environment in which the press and the police are afraid to pursue the truth for fear of brutal reprisals from Ankara, there’s one Turkish citizen who stands against the suppression of free speech: Fuat Avni.

Fuat Avni is a pseudonym used by an anonymous government whistleblower. He has more than 2.3 million followers on Twitter (so, half as many as Donald Trump).

Here are two excerpts from an interview Vocativ conducted with Fuat Avni last year:

Vocativ: Is there a reason why you chose the name Fuat Avni?



FA: I did not open the account with this name initially. I used different names. But I did not want any other person to be hurt because of what I wrote, so I changed user names frequently. Fuat Avni means “a helping heart.” I thought it to be suitable and I continued with it.



Vocativ: Do you alone control the Twitter account?



FA: There is no team behind it, only me. I don’t need to get any information from anyone because for years I have been working at in sensitive positions within the AKP [Turkey’s ruling party]. Because of my position, I have information about people at critical points. The reports and information come to my desk as well. It is ridiculous to think that an insider gets information from an outsider. Only I and Allah know who Fuat Avni is.

Well, on Sunday, October 11, Fuat Avnil tweeted something interesting.

https://twitter.com/fuatavni_f/status/653340921560461312?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

18. Seçimden çok korkan Yezid, iç savaş çıkarmanın yanısıra Rus jetlerini düşürüp ülkeyi fiilen savaşa sokmayı bile düşünüyor.
12:46 AM - 12 Oct 2015

11,549 11,549 Retweets
6,411

That, allegedly, is the tweet that foretold Ankara's move to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border late last month in the first incident of a NATO member engaging a Russian or Soviet aircraft in more than six decades.

The prediction didn't go unnoticed.

Late last month, Russia's sharp-tongued, US foreign policy critic extraordinaire Maria Zakharova cited the Fuat Avnil tweet in accusing Turkey of purposefully downing the Russian warplane. Here's Today's Zaman (whose editor in chief just resigned under legal pressure from Erdogan):

In comments on Turkey’s recent downing of a Russian jet over violation of its airspace, a spokesperson from the Russian Foreign Ministry has recalled that famous Turkish Twitter whistleblower claimed back in October that the Turkish government was planning to down a Russian jet to remain in power.



At a press conference on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova claimed that Turkey “purposefully” downed the Russian Su-24 at the Turkish-Syrian border on Tuesday and said the “unprecedented” incident will have serious repercussions.



She also quoted statements of Turkish Twitter whistleblower Fuat Avni who claimed in October that the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) government and President Recep Tayyip Erdo?an were planning to down a Russian jet to bring Turkey to brink of war with Russia to ultimately keep its power. “This is very interesting,” Zakharova said.

Your argument has more holes in it than a sieve. Even if the Russians were the provocative ones in Syria, that in no way detracts from the fact that in this situation, the Russian ship is in international waters and can behave in whatever manner it likes so long as it respects international law. If the Turks shot at a Russian vessel in international waters without obvious evidence of a clear and present danger, and "he was holding a surface to air launcher in a provocative manner" doesn't fit the bill, then Turkey would be essentially be engaging in an act of war against Russia.

Now I realise you live in your own fantasy world of how things play out, but I strongly doubt even Erdogan would be that stupid. So we won't be seeing any "sprays of red mist" any time soon despite your obvious fantasies to the contrary.

 

[Jola]

All rubbish.

BTW, I don't regard Zerohedge as a reliable site, it is all conspiracy theory BS.

And those waters are not International in the traditional sense, if the Russians misbehave there will be consequences.

And I never said that anything would happen unless the Russians misbehaved, you have been writing creative nonsense.

This was amended under the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, which restored the straits to Turkish territory—but allowed all foreign warships and commercial shipping to traverse the straits freely. Turkey eventually rejected the terms of that treaty, and subsequently Turkey remilitarized the straits area. The reversion was formalized under the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits of July 20, 1936. That convention, which is still in force, treats the straits as an international shipping lane save that Turkey retains the right to restrict the naval traffic of non-Black Sea states.

Turkey was neutral in World War II until February 1945, and the straits were closed to the warships of belligerent nations during this time, although some German auxiliary vessels were permitted to transit. In diplomatic conferences, Soviet representatives had made known their interest in Turkish concession of Soviet naval bases on the straits. This, as well as Stalin's demands for the restitution of the Turkish provinces of Kars, Artvin and Ardahan to the Soviet Union (which were lost by Turkey in the Russo–Turkish War of 1877–1878, but were regained with the Treaty of Kars in 1921), were considerations in Turkey's decision to abandon neutrality in foreign affairs. Turkey declared war against Germany in February 1945, but did not engage in offensive actions.[20][21][22][23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus

Note that the Straits have been closed to belligerent nations under the latest treaty.