Turkey siezes four Russian ships

[Xarog]

Nope. You seem to have reserved that all for yourself.

But you've asserted that defending a group of people in a neighbouring nation is reason enough to engage in violent action against another nation-state's armed forces. So clearly by that argument, Russia had a valid reason to engage the forces of the Ukrainian army after the coup in Ukraine and the rebellion of ethnic Russians living within Ukraine.

Not so?

 

[Jola]

But you've asserted that defending a group of people in a neighbouring nation is reason enough to engage in violent action against another nation-state's armed forces. So clearly by that argument, Russia had a valid reason to engage the forces of the Ukrainian army after the coup in Ukraine and the rebellion of ethnic Russians living within Ukraine.

Not so?

Nope, I didn't say that at all.

This is not comparable at all, the Turks did not go into Syria and attack the Syrian forces, in order to defend the Turkmen.

You need to go back to basic comprehension class.

And Putin remains a butcher.

 

[Xarog]

Nope, I didn't say that at all.

You need to go back to basic comprehension class.

And Putin remains a butcher.

What do you call bombing Turkish allies, after being specifically requested not to do so ?

Premeditated murder ?

The Turks were fully within their rights to shoot down the SU-24.

By this standard, anyone whose allies are being attacked is entitled to defend them. There is no other reasonable way to interpret what you've said.

 

[Jola]

By this standard, anyone whose allies are being attacked is entitled to defend them. There is no other reasonable way to interpret what you've said.

The Turks shot down the SU-24 because it crossed into Turkey, that was their legal excuse.

But not the real reason.

Putin played the Turks, he knew what would happen if he attacked the Turkmen, after all the Turkish warnings.

Back to the old position, you choose :

Is Putin a mastermind, by manipulating the Turks, or an absolute idiot (for not foreseeing what would happen) ?

IMO the former.

If you prefer to believe that Putin is an idiot, go ahead, you may be right.

 

[Seriously]

What do you call shooting down a military Russian [-]aircraft[/-]fighter jet that illegally crossed into their air space?

FTFY. Just in case you are confused by it all.

 

[Xarog]

The Turks shot down the SU-24 because it crossed into Turkey, that was their legal excuse.

But not the real reason.

Putin played the Turks, he knew what would happen if he attacked the Turkmen, after all the Turkish warnings.

Back to the old position, you choose :

Is Putin a mastermind, by manipulating the Turks, or an absolute idiot ?

IMO the former.

Yeah, except for that whole bit about the Turkish whisteblower who tweeted about Erdogan's plans back in October. So it looks like Turkey manufactured the pretext and then shot down a Russian jet while it was in Syrian airspace.

Oh, but right, you choose to ignore all facts you consider inconvenient.

So I guess I'll simply have to resort to the pointing out the logical fallacy of your argument - you present a false dilemma.

And those "Turkmen" remain armed Islamic extremists of the same brand as ISIS and Al-Nusra. Since Russia is in Syria with the permission and co-operation of the legitimate Syrian government, and since the Turkmen themselves are involved in Syria's civil war, that makes them legitimate targets insofar as they're participating in the conflict.

 

[Seriously]

Oh, but right, you choose to ignore all facts you consider inconvenient..

LoL.Rich coming from the likes you. So another member use your very own tactics against you. How PC of him.

 

[Jola]

And those "Turkmen" remain armed Islamic extremists of the same brand as ISIS and Al-Nusra. Since Russia is in Syria with the permission and co-operation of the legitimate Syrian government, and since the Turkmen themselves are involved in Syria's civil war, that makes them legitimate targets insofar as they're participating in the conflict.

Blah, blah, blah, BS

Ah, yes, that "legitimate" Syrian government that is getting the free trip to The Hague.

Putin better be careful, he could join them.

 

[Jola]

LoL.Rich coming from the likes you. So another member use your very own tactics against you. How PC of him.

Yeah I noticed that, how naughty of me.

 

[Xarog]

LoL.Rich coming from the likes you. So another member use your very own tactics against you. How PC of him.

I don't ignore facts I find inconvenient, I refute them. You just don't like it when my arguments remain valid despite the BS you post.

 

[Xarog]

Blah, blah, blah, BS

Indeed, that's a very apt summation of your posting style.

 

[Seriously]

I don't ignore facts I find inconvenient, I refute them. You just don't like it when my arguments remain valid despite the BS you post.

You still live in your own wet dream world I see. Still believing the circular chameleon style garbage you post?


BTW, I updated my signature to to include the neo apologetics.

 

[Xarog]

You still live in your own wet dream world I see. Still believing the circular chameleon style garbage you post?


BTW, I updated my signature to to include the neo apologetics.

Awww, your hatred warms the cockles of my cold black heart.

 

[Seriously]

Awww, your hatred warms the cock..........[-]less[/-] of my cold black heart.

FTFY.

 

[Jola]

I don't ignore facts I find inconvenient, I refute them.

But you always try to refute them with rubbish, so there is never scope for a decent argument.

 

[Xarog]

FTFY.

Um, no, you didn't.

But you always try to refute them with rubbish, so there is never scope for a decent argument.

If it's such rubbish, I'm sure you can explain how you did not present a false dilemma as part of your argument.

 

[Seriously]

But you always try to refute them with rubbish, so there is never scope for a decent argument.

and on top of it he believes the trollings he makes up and sucks out of his thumbs trying to sound and feel relevant or intelligent or both.

 

[Xarog]

and on top of it he believes the trollings he makes up and sucks out of his thumbs trying to sound and feel relevant or intelligent or both.

Says the clown who can only resort to ad-hominems.

 

[Seriously]

Says the clown who can only resort to ad-hominems.

Kids love clowns so they at least have something they can say and do to make others laugh. So sad that you cannot be a clown little russian teddy bear?

 

[Jola]

If it's such rubbish, I'm sure you can explain how you did not present a false dilemma as part of your argument.

Talking about that, I see that you now admit to the illegal invasion of the Crimea and Ukraine by the Russians Armed Forces. And thereby also the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner by the Russian Armed Forces.

Doesn't matter anyway, everybody else knows that.

As I said, Putin is a butcher.