Uniforum almost got it right... a chat about the new EPP system

w1z4rd

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
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Im not sure how many of you dont know, but Uniforum (after 10 years) has mostly caught up to the rest of the developed world. We can now register domains on the new EPP system. This is great, this means there are multiple registrars... but the single biggest problem of people working with the new EPP system is still Uniforum.

This is basically the problem. The rule is something along the lines are that you can not move a domain in the month it was expiring or it was registered. This ONLY happens on Uniforum's EPP system. Not one other EPP system in the world behaves with this silly rule. Most people tend to want to move the domain in the month that its expiring. Well they cant. They either have to move it two months before, or pay for another year and move it a month after you have paid.

Ill give you a couple of examples of why this is retarded:

1) Your domain is about to expire. You dont like your current registrar and have found better pricing. You want to move. You cant.
2) Your domain has expired. Its on ticket count 2. Yes, you can pay for it to be paid up again... but you cant move that domain for another month.

This is really really retarded and from talks with people in the industry it comes down to Uniforum's own legacy invoicing system. This is why we cant move the domains when we should be able to. Uniforum have kinda screwed us over.

What makes thing even worse is that Uniforum really dont care about this issue. They feel like it will be a problem that goes away after a couple of years once everyone is moved off the old system. They even refuse to offer you a simple guide on how to resolve this issue with them.

This is the problem with having one company a registry. I was so excited about the new system.... but I see Uniforum are still the bottleneck :(

/sigh.
 
I may be wrong in stating this but its just another way of them making money.
Their proposals regarding fee increases back up the theory that its all about money....
Legacy registrations to increase to R75.... EPP registrar setup fees increasing to R5000
 
ghoti said:
The rule is something along the lines are that you can not move a domain in the month it was expiring or it was registered. This ONLY happens on Uniforum's EPP system. Not one other EPP system in the world behaves with this silly rule.
Click to expand...

Many registrars won't allow you to move a domain within 60 days of changing any of the registrant's details. And there is an ICANN rule which prohibits transferring a domain within 60 days of registration or transfer:

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/transfers/name-holder-faqs
 
texo said:
Many registrars won't allow you to move a domain within 60 days of changing any of the registrant's details. And there is an ICANN rule which prohibits transferring a domain within 60 days of registration or transfer:

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/transfers/name-holder-faqs
Click to expand...

+1 Sounds normal to me, however, moving the domain a month BEFORE it expires should be allowed, I've done it several times when a registrar overseas allowed me to get hosting and a free year's registration for my domain if I move the domain over too. But this needs to happen BEFORE it expires

server-admins.net said:
I may be wrong in stating this but its just another way of them making money.
Their proposals regarding fee increases back up the theory that its all about money....
Legacy registrations to increase to R75.... EPP registrar setup fees increasing to R5000
Click to expand...

The setup fee's are R5000, else every joe soap can become one (which it appears already happened). They still charge R35 per domain. So apples with apples my friend.

The reason why the increased the legacy registration fee is to "encourage" people to use the EPP system instead. This way driving all those "hosting" companies that are really resellers for other hosting companies, to use the EPP system of an accredited registrar or become accredited themselves.
 
What a disaster!

I cannot agree with this....

AcidRaZor said:
+1 The setup fee's are R5000, else every joe soap can become one (which it appears already happened). They still charge R35 per domain. So apples with apples my friend.
Click to expand...

Maybe to you this is "any joe soap" but the last time I looked, there was quite a cottage industry in one man (or woman) shops offering web development that could register domain names on behalf of clients if they so wished.

Some reasons why this EPP system is plainly daft IMHO

* To my knowledge there is no ISP in South-Africa offering an easy-to-use registration service such as GoDaddy, that allows you to register a domain and set up the DNS record so that you can host/deploy your website/content/app on a site of your choice. I would be delighted to be proved wrong in this, but my experience has been otherwise. Every South-African based company offering .co.za domain registration either demands to host the site themselves or they employ a shady practice such as registering that domain as their own property or at the very least refusing to relinquish the domain to client that should own the domain. In twenty years I have dealt with tenfold SA ISP's and have yet to encounter a single one that will not grab you by the soft and curlies in one way or another. In contrast dealing with ISP's in the USA is an absolute pleasure.
* The barrier of entry to DIY co.za domain registration used to be having some email proficiency, some elementary DNS setup skills and paying a R49 fee per website. Now it requires accreditation, a fee of R5,000 and a very complex software setup and/or customisation. This is NOT progress in anyone's book. This is a placing a massive barrier of entry in front of the mom-and-pop website shops.
* Up till now you could host a co.za website anywhere in the world at the ISP of your choice. Now you will have to look for an accredited (South-African?) ISP that will register your domain and allow you to host/move the registration to a different ISP of your choice. To my knowledge none of the main ISP's (Mweb, WebAfrica, Hetzner, etc) will allow this - they want to register your domain AND host it. In effect EPP will mean that all (or almost all) .co.za domains are forced to be registered and hosted within South-Africa by South-African accredited EPP registrars.
* For the man in the streat this will cost more. This process is expensive for ISP's and registrars of the .co.za domain and they will recoup that cost by viewing domain registration as a lucrative profit center. From a minimum DIY web registration of R49 the cost of .co.za registered domains will escalate by at least 200% but in most cases considerably more.
* I have always provided web-registration as a service-at-cost to clients and friends and not only will I not be able to provide this service in future but it will be considerable more expensive in future. Domain registration is NOT my business, it is a service, but it is essential that I be able to provide that service. In all likelihood I will never again register a .co.za domain for anyone again, opting for .com addresses. I must admit that registering only .com domains in future will greatly simplify my life in NEVER dealing with Uniforum ever again!
* This will ultimately stifle and hamstring the IT sector in South-Africa. Why? It is extremely easy to develop a web application or service on Heroku or another cloud service (which is my core business) and point a domain to the web app. Now there will be a third party involved, which not only competes directly (or indirectly) with the web app developer, but in all cases to my knowledge, balks at the content/app being hosted on systems other than their own. The web is becoming appified and cloud based and now there is a huge hurdle placed before .co.za websites.

As far as I can see the implementation of EPP will be a disaster for everyone other than the FatCat ISP's (and their BEE accredited individuals) in that it will push up costs dramatically, will restrict freedom for most (all?) .co.za domains in where they are able to host their sites, will stifle the development of the cloud/webapp industry in South-Africa and will generally be a significantly greater pain-in-the-butt than the Uniforum registration process has been up to now.

Just my five cents worth....

Casper Labuschagne
+27 82 867 1767
 
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Addendum to the above, the argument in original post in this thread should be added to my list of problems. The problem is this - you register a domain with a South African company specifically with the intention of hosting it overseas or pointing the domain to a cloud based service or app. But you cannot do so since the domain cannot be moved in the first month of registration.

I can only conclude that this implementation of EPP was designed to prevent .co.za domains to be hosted outside of South-Africa and to restrict .co.za to the accredited ISP's that have paid the application fee. And at a considerable increase in cost to anyone registering or renewing a .co.za domain.
 
Krampus said:
* To my knowledge there is no ISP in South-Africa offering an easy-to-use registration service such as GoDaddy, that allows you to register a domain and set up the DNS record so that you can host/deploy your website/content/app on a site of your choice. I would be delighted to be proved wrong in this, but my experience has been otherwise. Every South-African based company offering .co.za domain registration either demands to host the site themselves or they employ a shady practice such as registering that domain as their own property or at the very least refusing to relinquish the domain to client that should own the domain. In twenty years I have dealt with tenfold SA ISP's and have yet to encounter a single one that will not grab you by the soft and curlies in one way or another. In contrast dealing with ISP's in the USA is an absolute pleasure.
Click to expand...

http://www.domaincheap.co.za offer this service. You can register a domain at cost price and use whatever name servers you want. Domain registrations are instant and you can use your own name servers or use theirs.
 
ghoti said:
Quote Originally Posted by Krampus...RL="http://www.imaginet.co.za"]Imaginet.co.za ) provide a domain parking service, where you can edit your own DNS settings to point to remote providers, register your domain, and a host of other features. We also provide a selection of personal and business hosting packages. Forgot to mention our service is second to none.
Click to expand...
 
The great South African domain name debacle

Krampus said:
I cannot agree with this....
Click to expand...

Casper, your situation & comments really resonated with me yesterday.

A friend then told me about the new RESELLER options being offered by various companies in SA. This means that I wouldn't have to become a registrar, but could sign up to accesss lower per domain pricing and have access to the new EPP compliant systems.

The catch? Well, for me it's a pretty big one.

The first service I looked at (http://www.registerdomain.co.za) offers packages starting at R99 per MONTH to register unlimited domains at R50 per year.

This means an additional R1200 per annum to do what I can do now (at least until the end of Feb).

On Uniforum's new legacy system pricing , this means a break-even point of 48 domains per annum. I'm already out of the running. Out of interest, the R399 package with R40 domains translates to R4800 additional cost per annum and a break even of 137 domains.

Am I wrong to feel like I'm being squeezed out here and that the reseller "option" is not an option at all, just an excuse to add costs to the system?

In short, I have no choice but to stay with Uniforum's legacy system and avoid co.za domains wherever possible.

-- Zapped
 
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Krampus said:
I cannot agree with this....
Click to expand...

That's because you're an idiot to be honest. These developers that offer registration services to their clients CAN JUST USE A REGISTERED EPP, they don't have to use the legacy system. That is why people like elitehost or Web Africa are EPP registrars.

Frankly, your mindset on how this works needs to change. Just because someone sells domain registrations doesn't mean they have to become a registrar, most people I know who sells .com's uses people like godaddy.com, which is an EPP/Registrar.

CHANGE your mindset.

zapped said:
Casper, your situation & comments really resonated with me yesterday.

A friend then told me about the new RESELLER options being offered by various companies in SA. This means that I wouldn't have to become a registrar, but could sign up to accesss lower per domain pricing and have access to the new EPP compliant systems.

The catch? Well, for me it's a pretty big one.

The first service I looked at (http://www.registerdomain.co.za) offers packages starting at R99 per MONTH to register unlimited domains at R50 per year.

This means an additional R1200 per annum to do what I can do now (at least until the end of Feb).

On Uniforum's new legacy system pricing , this means a break-even point of 48 domains per annum. I'm already out of the running. Out of interest, the R399 package with R40 domains translates to R4800 additional cost per annum and a break even of 137 domains.

Am I wrong to feel like I'm being squeezed out here and that the reseller "option" is not an option at all, just an excuse to add costs to the system?

In short, I have no choice but to stay with Uniforum's legacy system and avoid co.za domains wherever possible.

-- Zapped
Click to expand...

Whatever dude. You can register a FREE account at http://elitehost.co.za (or someone like Web Africa, but WA will overcharge) and you can register domains on-demand for R50 a pop, not costing you R99 extra a month "to do what you do now"

YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY A MONTHLY FEE OR BE YOUR OWN REGISTRAR FOR **** SAKES

WHY AM I SURROUNDED BY I@#%@#S TODAY!?!
 
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AcidRaZor said:
Whatever dude. You can register a FREE account at http://elitehost.co.za (or someone like Web Africa, but WA will overcharge) and you can register domains on-demand for R50 a pop, not costing you R99 extra a month "to do what you do now"
Click to expand...

Awesome, I see on their pricing page it says co.za is R75 not the R50 you mention. Would be great if it is R50.
 
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