Unshaped ADSL tests - shocking

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Having said that, you can hardly be competative with a 300ping if we're talking FPS.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

With this screenshots, in first person shooters you can be competitive overseas [8D]

http://www.abcprop.com/COD/bfv1.jpg
http://www.abcprop.com/COD/bfv2.jpg


In the U.K alone there is 30 Official Eletronic Arts(yes thirty!!) servers each capable of holding 32 players [:0] ....not to mention the Nvidia sponsored servers with 50+ or American servers by EA before you get to the privately owned ones.

In S.A we have 1 server which when I check is either completely empty or 4 players are playing on a huge map not suited for their small number [xx(]

And ofcourse MMORPG games like Everquest etc. are only played on overseas servers.



Overseas adsl means: lower ping + higher bandwidth
Local adsl: Higher ping + lower bandwidth

*wish I can plug that sat-3 directly into my pc :(*
 
From those results, I'm guessing the TeleCity London router is multihomed from the SAIX network.

This is purely theoretical, as SAIX have been keeping the exact layout of their network a closely guarded secret for years, who knows why...

If you look closely, the nearest hop before the TeleCity router is different for the ADSL and ISDN accounts. There is no "common hop" still inside South Africa before hitting the London router.

Here's my hypothesis. It might be possible that SAIX has several "edge nodes" on its network. These are routers that are connected to the outside world.

From what I can deduce, Telkom uses separate frame relay virtual channel connections over SAT3, which all end up on the same physical network at the London end point. Thus, a layout for SAIX's international routing might look something like this:

ISDN access, Cape Town PoP:

[Your PC]
||
(ISDN T/A)
||
&lt;-Phone line-&gt;
||
(ISDN NTU)
||
[Barrat Street PoP PPP Server]
||
[Core router]
||
(Ethernet over ATM Frame Relay VC)
||
&lt;-SAT3-&gt;
||
(Frame Relay endpoint)
||
[London Core Router]
||
&lt;-ATM leased line-&gt;
||
[TeleCity London 1st Tier NOC Core Router]
||
{INTERNET}

For ADSL customers connection through a virtual (PPPoE) PoP:

[Your PC]
||
(ADSL Modem)
||
&lt;-Phone line-&gt;
||
(DSLAM at your exchange)
||
&lt;-Ethernet over ATM virtual circuit-&gt;
||
[Virtual PoP PPPoE Server]
||
[Core router at virtual PoP]
||
(Ethernet over ATM Frame Relay VC)
||
&lt;-SAT3-&gt;
||
(Frame Relay End Point)
||
[London Core Router]
||
&lt;- ATM Leased Line -&gt;
||
[TeleCity London 1st Tier NOC Core Router]
||
{INTERNET}

Now, from the crude ASCII diagram above, it would be evident that the first hop you see is the PPP server, virtual or actual, to which you are connected. Then, one or more routers at the PoP, followed by the core router.

From the core router, the traffic enters a Frame Relay VC, which can run directly through Telkom's local ATM network and SAT3/WASC/SAFE, but appear to be one connection as it is routed at the physical layer, not the IP protocol layer.

Once out of the Frame Relay VC, the traffic hits the London core router that connects SAIX to TeleCity.

Here's where the fun comes in. Frame Relay VCs can be routed where ever you want over the physical ATM network. That means, while they appear to be only one hop in IP terms, they can be many hops in physical infrastructure terms.

If, for instance, the ADSL virtual PoP is far from an actual SAT3 endpoint, the VC might be routed through many hops on SAIX's local ATM network before reaching the endpoint.

Currently, the only direct SAT3 endpoint is Cape Town. This means, the Barrat Street PoP has virtually direct access to the SAT3 cable. A Frame Relay VC running from Barrat Street does not need to cross more than one physical network hop to get to SAT3. At the London endpoint, there should be no hops at all, since SAIX owns the London endpoint.

Let's say the ADSL virtual PoP is in Pretoria or Johannesburg. In order for the frames to reach SAT3, they must first traverse 1500km of terrestrial ATM links in order to reach SAT3.

Even worse, if you look closely, you will notice that in effect, a VC is also created by the ethernet over ATM connection from your modem to the virtual PoP. This means, if you live in Cape Town and are using an ADSL virtual PoP that is physically located in Pretoria, your frames are effectively traveling all the way up to Pretoria on one VC, then back down to Cape Town and on to London on a second VC.

Traversing the entire country twice before leaving for London would certainly cause the huge latency difference that shows up on the graph.

Another possibility is that the VC from the virtual PoP in question is still being routed through SAFE instead of SAT3. That would also cause an increase in latency to the next hop in London.

All of this is purely hypothetical of course, don't quote this when talking to SAIX tech support as I might be way off base. From what I can see though, this is probably the network layout we are dealing with.

If you look at the three letter code designations given to the virtual PoPs, you will find they are SAIX area codes generally used on real PoPs in Gauteng. Since the ethernet over ATM VC connection can also traverse Telkom's entire network, it is not necessary that the virtual PoP you connect to be in the same physical location as you are.

Regardless of your location, you will always find you are connected to a virtual PoP with a Gauteng designation. From this, I deduce that all these virtual PoPs are in Gauteng.

Moving from this assumption, it is also reasonable to assume that all packets you send with your ADSL connection must first go to Gauteng, from there go back to Cape Town and only then travel to London via SAT3.

Since the ISDN connection sybawoods used to test the latency was made to a PoP that was physically located in Cape Town, at the actual SAT3 endpoint, it can be expected that latency will be much lower.

The verdict, if you want low international latency, ADSL is not for you. It would only be improved if the physical hardware comprising the virtual PoPs could be moved closer to the SAT3 endpoint and would only give a visible improvement for users in Cape Town, as everybody else's packets would still need to traverse the ethernet over ATM VCs to get there.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
Podo - I'm no technical wizz, but I think you may be close.

In the very first few weeks that I had ADSL, shortly after it was launched, I was gettings pings of just under 300ms to a UK game server. With my ISDN line my latency was about 50ms faster. I wasn't to phased, but did log a query. At the time, I actually got called by one of the ADSL project-managers (it was early days, and they were eager for feedback from customers).

His explanation was something close to yours - he said that the route of my traffic was Cape Town --&gt; Gauteng --&gt;Cape Town before it left our shores. His explanation at the time, and forgive me if I'm using incorrect terms - was that the "BRAS servers" was in Gauteng. They had made a proposal to have many more - a few in each region. He assured me that when that was approved, the problem would disappear. Of course, they shaped the network shortly after that it, so it was never possible to test. I went back to ISDN shortly afterwards.

I too may be off base with my explanation, but that's how I remember it. At the end of the day, it does appear that it's a function of their network topology.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SoulMyst</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Having said that, you can hardly be competative with a 300ping if we're talking FPS.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

With this screenshots, in first person shooters you can be competitive overseas [8D]

http://www.abcprop.com/COD/bfv1.jpg
http://www.abcprop.com/COD/bfv2.jpg


In the U.K alone there is 30 Official Eletronic Arts(yes thirty!!) servers each capable of holding 32 players [:0] ....not to mention the Nvidia sponsored servers with 50+ or American servers by EA before you get to the privately owned ones.

In S.A we have 1 server which when I check is either completely empty or 4 players are playing on a huge map not suited for their small number [xx(]

And ofcourse MMORPG games like Everquest etc. are only played on overseas servers.

Overseas adsl means: lower ping + higher bandwidth
Local adsl: Higher ping + lower bandwidth

*wish I can plug that sat-3 directly into my pc :(*
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I'm with you there SoulMyst. Obviously lower pings are better, but a steady ping at under 300ms with no packet loss can be very playable if the game has good net-code.

I do play BF1942 overseas as well, but I'm mainly into competitive on-line simulation-racing. The software we use (Papyrus's NASCAR 2003 season), has amongst the best net-code in the industry, and it's quite possible for 42 players to race simulatenously on the same track, provided you have a ping of under about 400ms. Their are huge international leagues, with players from all cross the world, from Brazil, the USA, UK, Russia that compete together. We have a very active South African league. But like any other sport, or hobby, you reach the point where you want to compete against the best in the rest of the world. It <b>is</b> possible via ISDN. But ADSL would be first prize.
 
Jeepers, the man's a genius.

I have always known that ADSL has to go to Gauteng first. That’s why my ping to Karoo in CT is higher than my ping to Kalahari, a Gauteng based CS Server. So although Im in CT, my ADSL gets first routed to Gauteng and then back to Cape Town whereas last year when I had ISDN, my ping was far better to Karoo in CT.
The latency (ping) of a CS server using ISDN if you are based in CT is about 15 to 35 for CT local server and about 40 to 60 to a Gauteng based server.
Using ADSL my ping to Karoo in CT is between 50 and 100 although I’m in CT. And my ping to Kalahari in Gauteng is about 30 to 40.
The guys with ISDN in CT have the best pings to Karoo CT servers.

So the routing to Gauteng is costing a CT user an extra 30 to 80 milliseconds on their latency. And if the Gauteng routers are having problems then your latency could be further compromised.

So for a CT user wanting a better ping through the SAT3 connection is basically wasting their time as all traffic is routed to Gauteng first and not to Melkbos where it should be going.
It's almost like the Navy who has its Headquarters in Gauteng some 1500Km from the sea.

I remember the days when I first got my 56K I was with a company called Dockside. They since sold their subscribers to MWeb several years ago, me included. But those days I could achieve very low latencies connecting to a overseas game server. Once I joined MWeb, I lost that low latency immediately. I was very disappointed at the time.



<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
Sadly, there's no real solution to this in sight either...

The ideal way to set up the ADSL network would be to have a PPPoE server at each physical SAIX PoP. This would mean that each physical PoP also has a virtual PoP for ADSL at the same location.

To do that though, the ethernet network created by all the ADSL modems and DSLAMs around the country, which is currently one virtual ethernet running over many physical ATM links, would have to be split.

In other words, for good latency in Cape Town, an additional PPPoE server would need to be placed in the Cape Town Barrat Street PoP. Then, all DSLAMs that are closer to the Barrat Street PoP than any other physical PoP would need to be isolated into a single ethernet over ATM network, having only the PPPoE server at the Cape Town PoP available to PPPoE clients on the virtual ethernet.

If this were to be done everywhere in the country, all ADSL users would be able to connect to a PPPoE server in their area, with minimal delays in the frames traveling over the ethernet over ATM network.

Thus, if you live in Cape Town, your frames only travel from the DSLAM at your exchange to the PPPoE server in Cape Town, from there to the core router and on to SAT3.

If you live in Bloemfontein, your frames only travel from the DSLAM at your exchange to the PPPoE server at the Bloemfontein PoP. From there to the border router at the Cape Town Barrat Street PoP and from there on to the core router.

In the current set-up, packets from Cape Town users travel in ethernet frames up to Gauteng, then in ethernet frames down to Cape Town and on to SAT3.

Packets from users in Bloemfontein also travel up to Gauteng, then in ethernet frames down to Cape Town and again on to SAT3.

Obviously, if the network were set up in the correct way, the physical distance a packet from Bloemfontein would need to travel would be cut by 1000km. Packets from Cape Town users would have their journey cut by a staggering 3000km. For those of you who have been paying attention, an interesting paradox will appear. Currently, to get good latency on SAT3, you have to be as far away from the endpoint as possible.

Packets from Gauteng only travel 1500km from Gauteng to Cape Town, then on to SAT3.

Packets from Bloemfontein travel 500km to Gauteng, then 1500km to Cape Town, for a total journey of 2000km.

Packets from Cape Town travel 1500km to Gauteng and 1500km back to Cape Town, for a total journey of 3000km.

Fixing this is the problem though. From a practical and cost perspective, I doubt that Telkom would even consider implementing proper routing for ADSL users.

Firstly, they would need to install a PPPoE server at each physical PoP. While specialised hardware is not required for a PPPoE server, I doubt that SAIX would make the investment in man hours to set this up.

Secondly, the ADSL network would need to be split into a myriad of small ethernet over ATM virtual networks. No physical changes to the ATM infrastructure would be required, but it would require one crucial change to the way ADSL modems are configured.

In order to split the ethernet over ATM network, each physical area would need its own VPI and VCI channel numbers. While this is very easy to set up, SAIX will steer clear. Currently, all ADSL modems and routers sold under sanction from Telkom come pre-configured with the VPI:8,VCP:35 channel numbers in use throughout the country. South African distributors of third party modems also, generally, load custom firmware with these channel numbers as the default.

In order to split the network, Telkom technicians and help desks would need to know the VPI and VCI channel numbers for each physical location. They would also need to know how to assist users in setting these up correctly for their location.

Getting the Telkom help desk to understand how to configure the Marconi ADSL POTS router has been a challenge that Telkom's dedicated training staff have yet to overcome. Teaching them how to help users set up any one of the many different modems they might encounter, is impossible.

For these reasons, you won't find SAIX doing anything to address this routing issue any time soon. For now, at least, I would recommend sticking to ISDN if latency is an issue. Alternatively, if you have the money, you could install both solutions, using ADSL for bulk transfers where latency is not an issue and ISDN for real time traffic where latency must be kept to a minimum.

Now, to wander slightly off topic:

Stay away from MyWireless. If latency and packet loss are a great concern, you will find MyWireless greatly lacking. Due to the limitations of long range radio technology, you'll find latency on MyWireless might be slightly better than ADSL, but packet loss will be rampant. This will have an adverse negative impact on local and international real time traffic. If you want to game or trade forex, steer clear.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
Perhaps one could assume that seeing that SAT3 is in Melkbos, the main PPoe Server you talk about should have been based in Barrack Street and all other connections leading to it. Not in Gauteng like it is now.

So Podo;
Tell us what in your opinion is the benefits of taking up this new "Unshaped ADSL", other than Forex Trading as it seems to me that the Gamers are no better off.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
BTTB,

On the unshaped ADSL account:

In my humble opinion, absolutely nothing. Since real latency doesn't seem to be effected by being shaped or not shaped, I can't see how it would improve your experience.

For forex traders, it might offer a small improvement in terms of the actual bandwidth they can force through the system. This means, large graphs might be able to download to their systems faster. In terms of latency, I don't think it will make any difference at all.

Those who will gain the most from the unshaped account are not gamers or forex traders, as Telkom's misleading advertising would lead us to believe, but people who frequently use P2P file sharing networks.

Since the removal of traffic shaping would allow P2P traffic to gain a high network priority, throughput should improve dramatically for P2P users. Of course, once you reach 4GB of traffic volume, you can kiss your P2P downloads goodbey for the month.

On a whole, I would recommend that everyone stay away from this new unshaped service. For the huge price difference it is definitely not worth it.

On the topic of PPPoE server locations:

First off, let me apologise to everyone in Cape Town. The PoP is in fact in Barrack Street, not Barrat Street. I don't know where I came up with the incorrect name, though I vaguely remember reading it off a SAIX code allocation list a very long time ago.

Now, as for moving all the PPPoE servers to Barrack Street. This might not be a bad idea at all. It is not the most elegant solution, as it would decrease international latency but increase local latency, but it would definitely be a good first aid measure to improve the international latency for ADSL users.

I would go one step further though. Simply establish a PoP in Melkbosstrand and host the PPPoE servers there, literally on the SAT3 end point.

The best way would still be to split the network though. While working this afternoon on a classic car engine I am restoring, I was thinking about my previous post and it did occur to me that there is a practical way to allocate VCI numbers to each area. The VCI could be the same as the area code of the physical PoP where the PPPoE server is hosted.

For instance, for the Western Cape, with the PoP in the 021 area code, VCI could be set to 21. For the Free State, with the Bloemfontien PoP in the 051 area code, the VCI could be set to 51. We could also have 11 and 12 for Gauteng, 31 for Durban and so forth.

This would still require that SAIX set up PPPoE servers at each PoP and that their helpdesk staff be trained to help users set up the correct VPI and VCI, but it would at the very least not be too confusing.

The reason I say all this is the way local and international traffic is generally routed in South Africa. In the case of ADSL users, all international traffic is routed via SAT3, from Cape Town.

Thus, locating the PPPoE servers in Cape Town would seem to be a very good idea. However, this will cause local traffic to suffer for users in the rest of the country, inversely to the way international traffic from Cape Town suffers now.

The ISPA (Internet Service Provider Association of South Africa), the group that encourages co-operation between South African ISPs, has its main peering point in Johannesburg. The JINX (Johannesburg InterNetworking eXchange) provides a crucial local routing stop-off for all major ISPs.

Traffic from one local ISP to another must pass between the networks somehow. Before JINX and CINX (the Cape Town based emergency backup to JINX) were established in 1996, any traffic between different South African ISPs would first need to travel to their upstream providers overseas, then over the overseas internet to the second upstream provider and return via international links to the second local ISP.

JINX solved the problem by allowing local traffic to pass between different IP networks without the need to leave our shores.

If all PPPoE servers were to be moved to Cape Town, local latency for Gauteng users would be adverseley effected.

For instance, when connecting to a web site hosted in Johannesburg, a user from Pretoria would first have his traffic routed down to Cape Town on the ethernet over ATM layer, through the PPPoE server, then back to Johannesburg on the IP layer.

Also, anyone browsing local sites on hosted on networks other than SAIX would really feel the effects of such a move. If all PPPoE servers were in Cape Town, someone in Gauteng browsing a site hosted on the IS network, from an ADSL connection to the SAIX network, would have their traffic routed as follows: From Gauteng to Cape Town, through the PPPoE server, back to Gauteng, through JINX, to IS.

Obviously, we would be sacrificing good local latency for improved international latency.

Pondering this all has lead me to another interesting hypothesis which I will share with you now. If Telkom were lazy about setting up their ADSL PPPoE servers, they would naturally have chosen to host them all in a single location.

It should be fairly obvious to all by now that the ADSL network is optimised to carry local traffic and that international traffic is second on the list of priorities. If Telkom decided to be lazy about the placing of PPPoE servers, Gauteng would be the natural choice for the location of these servers, as placing servers close to JINX would mean the best possible local latency under the conditions.

If all PPPoE servers were to be moved to Cape Town without severely impacting local latency, the ISPA would also have to change its primary peering point from JINX to CINX. This is very unlikely though, since CINX is a small back-up peering point only used by the largest ISPs. Lines running into CINX are generally extremely small, rarely more than 128kbps, as they are only used for back-up perposes. Lines running into JINX range from 2MBps to multiple 34MBps connections.

Moving the primary peering point would thus mean that all ISPs will have to reshape their network topology and install large capacity lines in Cape Town. It will also be a disaster for most web hosting providers, as they have all gone to great trouble to invest in infrastructure in Johannesburg, to be close to JINX.

Giving each area its own PPPoE server and splitting the network would solve both these problems. Since all traffic will be able to take the shortest possible route to both critical routing points, the SAT3 endpoint and JINX. Local and international latency for all ADSL users would be greatly improved.

Perhaps, we might write up a letter to Telkom suggesting such a change, I doubt we would even be considered though, as the scale of the change needed to split the network now will be well beyond the investment in man hours that Telkom would be prepared to make. Not to mention the disruption the change will cause to those users who either ignore the request that they change their settings, or simply do not know how.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
BTTB that would have been the best solution but Telkom in all its infinite wisdom decided to place its all powerful Deathstar Class NOC here in JHB, so pretty much all the major backbone servers are located there to make life better for Telkom not customers.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Perhaps, we might write up a letter to Telkom suggesting such a change,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, we can only hope that someone takes note, but I wouldn't hold my breath... it's clear that true broadband via ADSL is way down on the list of priorities.

After my letter to Mr White I was asked by SAIX to send an email to the support desk to formalise the complaint. In that email I posted a link to this discussion - hopefully someone actually clicked on it and is following the discussion:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">----- Original Message -----

To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Attention Kuven

Images attached of my traces on the unshaped account. Below is also a copy of my post I made to the MyADSL forum - can read more about it at http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3172

cheers<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 
Well reading Podo's posts have certainly been an enlightening experience. Podo, you certainly know your topic and write clearly and in language people can understand. I thank you. [:)]

So the Shaped service would benefit people who would want to download P2P. But certainly these are the type of people that would want to download day and night, movies, mp3, porno etc. But what are they going to do with just 4 gigs. 7 or 8 movies for R900 per month plus Line Rental of R680. One could rather subscribe to DSTV or go buy the movies at the shop. Lol.
I think for the few people that download P2P are certainly a small minority and I think they mainly sit on the ZA Hub. I was their, the last 2 days of last month blowing the last 2 gigs of my 6gig ADSL account. Not actually really wanting to download anything in particular, I did not want to waste the expensive bandwidth as Telkom doesn't carry it forward or give you credit.
I'm not really interested in P2P stuff.

So on a closer review of this new product, I think Telkom has wasted it's time on the implementation of a product that nobody will buy. They could have rather taken the money spent on this product to make the Initial ADSL Product better for all. Or spent the money on the "expensive" international bandwidth.

If one had to sum up ADSL as just a product like any other, then Telkom have failed as a business. 16000 subscribers in a country of 44 odd million people and they are a monopoly and have had more than a year to launch the product. It’s a very low penetration into the market place IMO. Tells a bigger story don't you think.


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by BTTB</i>
<br />Well reading Podo's posts have certainly been an enlightening experience. Podo, you certainly know your topic and write clearly and in language people can understand. I thank you. [:)]

So the Shaped service would benefit people who would want to download P2P. But certainly these are the type of people that would want to download day and night, movies, mp3, porno etc. But what are they going to do with just 4 gigs. 7 or 8 movies for R900 per month plus Line Rental of R680. One could rather subscribe to DSTV or go buy the movies at the shop. Lol.
I think for the few people that download P2P are certainly a small minority and I think they mainly sit on the ZA Hub. I was their, the last 2 days of last month blowing the last 2 gigs of my 6gig ADSL account. Not actually really wanting to download anything in particular, I did not want to waste the expensive bandwidth as Telkom doesn't carry it forward or give you credit.
I'm not really interested in P2P stuff.

So on a closer review of this new product, I think Telkom has wasted it's time on the implementation of a product that nobody will buy. They could have rather taken the money spent on this product to make the Initial ADSL Product better for all. Or spent the money on the "expensive" international bandwidth.

If one had to sum up ADSL as just a product like any other, then Telkom have failed as a business. 16000 subscribers in a country of 44 odd million people and they are a monopoly and have had more than a year to launch the product. It’s a very low penetration into the market place IMO. Tells a bigger story don't you think.


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Spot on. Unless they do something drastic to improve unshaped ADSL, I personally see no reason to continue with it. The only improvement so far for me is very fast p2p performance. Is that worth a R600pm premium above shaped ADSL? No ways! Unless they can do something to bring the latency on par with my R100pm ISDN, I'm cancelling and reverting back to basic ADSL + ISDN to service my needs. Current costs for this is about R1200 p/m vs R1500+ for unshaped ADSL that gives me no benefit beyond what I currently use. Oh, there's that 1 gig of extra bandwidth - bleh [xx(]
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">On the unshaped ADSL account:

In my humble opinion, absolutely nothing. Since real latency doesn't seem to be effected by being shaped or not shaped, I can't see how it would improve your experience.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Face it folks, Telkom are just blattantly misleading the public yet again in the interests of generating yet more profits to their already 'very healthy' bottom line.
It seems you can say anything these days to sell a product, and not be held accountable for its shortcomings.
[V]
 
Phew! lots of nice informative stuff there Podo [:D]

Haven't read everything yet but:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since the ISDN connection sybawoods used to test the latency was made to a PoP that was physically located in Cape Town, at the actual SAT3 endpoint, it can be expected that latency will be much lower<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ok since Syba lives in Cape Town he's practically getting the same or close to my ping and I phone from Gauteng to Grahamstown and I suppose from there my packets travel to Cape Town onto sat-3. It confuses me 'oll brain a bit.

Even stranger is that I remember phoning the Bellville pop and getting pings as low as 180 but...1 week later every saix pop from here to Durban suddenly went to 500-700+.

So why do only a select few pops use the sat-3 and the rest of the country satalite now? I read that the sat-3's speed is 120gb/s so its not like they are having bandwidth problems?
 
sybawoods,

Well, since their current network topology doesn't allow them to do anything to improve the latency and there's not much chance of them fixing the topology and routing, I'd say there's really no benifit in having the unshaped account.

As I'm sitting here writing this, I suddenly contemplate my first internet connection. It was a dial-up with a 14400bps modem to a small ISP who only had a 256kbps line to JINX and a 128kbps line to BT. This was in 1997.

A full seven years on, I'm enjoying the small benifits of my capped ADSL account, which feels like a giant leap forward when compared to what I started that with.

As my mind wanders along this train of thought, I begin to think that in seven years from now, I will probably be reading these posts and having a jolly good chuckle at the horrible standards of service we had to be happy with today...

As I begin to ponder on possible futures and the kind of internet access we might be enjoying by 2011, I suddenly find myself having an intriguing thought. It's very well known that Eskom have a big share in the dead SNO. If they are so interested in telecommunications and are willing to write off R800 million in losses on fiber cables that are lying unused, why can't they just invest in power line modem technology?

Just imagine, by 2011, we could all have 50MBps internet connections without the need for a Telkom line or a wonky long distance wireless link.

Who feels like writing Eskom a letter and telling them how eagerly we would support them if they tried it?

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
Rodent,

You make me cry !

I decided to run iperf via MySmokeSignal ;-(
[128K @ 01:28 - 22.0 Kbits/sec]

btw, have you had any response/comments from Sentech concerning your web sites ?

R

************************************************************
The views expressed on this site are my own and NOT those of my employer.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">why can't they just invest in power line modem technology?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I remember a thread on this forum relating to a pilot rollout using this technology in Tswane. I wonder what happened with that? Anyone know?


Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
 
I know that Eskom had to write off R300 million on their books for the last financial year for fibre optic cabling. As the SNO has still not materialised, the amount spent by Eskom had to be reflected somehow, I presume. So the "Telkom Fiasco" stretches a lot further than we are led to understand. When is someone going to held accountable? Millions of Rands just going left, right and centre. I mean Eskom, thanks for the gesture of providing for the SNO etc, but how does Eskom recoup these losses in its books. Is it a Long Term Loan or do we as SA Consumers once again foot the bill for instance in larger electricity accounts? As it is we are paying for Zimbabwe and goodness knows who else. A utility like electricity that was by world standards very cheap, has become quite a considerable expense every month. People have resorted to energy saving lamps and set their geezers on 50 degrees Celsius etc.
Where does it all end? Who is riding this new gravy train?


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
Another update on this: contacted again today to post traces for latency. It is regarded as a problem and is "being worked on", so I'm still crossing fingers that there's a solution.

On another note, and won't give too much away for fear of someone clever at Telkom actually reading this, but besides the latency, something else has remained *cough* static since Thursday evening.
 
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