UP vs. UCT: Best course in Computer Eng.

markface said:
Yeah, fair enough. But do not do industrial...thats not in the same league as the others (mech, civil, chem, elec).

I think its not too bad now with comp eng, most companies understand where it all fits in... Unfortunately they usually get shoved in software development with compSci guys - not that thats a really bad thing (however, to me a compEng has done 4years to a compSci 3years so they shouldn't be on a par).
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Actually, judging from the limited number of companies that offer bursaries for people wishing to study Computer Eng., I'd say that maybe things haven't changed that much. Everyone either wants IT or CS grads.

markface said:
Anyway, I'm not sure what the OP's reasoning is that he chose comp eng, but but maybe electronic eng is the way to go? That opens the way for all routes...hardware, firmware, software...whatever. A comp eng doesn't have a great hardware/PCB background so doesn't really have the hardware option after graduation.
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I'm starting to think so too. The main reason I want to study this is because I have a strong interest in the field and I think I'm capable of doing the work (I'm aware that it won't be easy, I'm keen to learn). I've already registered at UP for Computer Eng., but put Electronic Eng. as a second option. Can I just swap it? (I'm still in Matric, haven't written the NBT)

markface said:
I think its not too bad now with comp eng, most companies understand where it all fits in... Unfortunately they usually get shoved in software development with compSci guys - not that thats a really bad thing (however, to me a compEng has done 4years to a compSci 3years so they shouldn't be on a par).

Anyway, I'm not sure what the OP's reasoning is that he chose comp eng, but but maybe electronic eng is the way to go? That opens the way for all routes...hardware, firmware, software...whatever. A comp eng doesn't have a great hardware/PCB background so doesn't really have the hardware option after graduation.

That being said, the best coders I've come across are CompSci hands down. Unfortunately they get taken for a ride salary wise until they have quite a few years XP under their belts.

I dunno, my 2cents.
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I have an interest in computers as a whole and I want to learn how to make things from scratch. I am interested in both the hardware and software aspects of technology. I also don't want to have difficulty finding funding and getting a job after graduation. I don't know if my logic is faulty, but I think it's easier learning about software if I already have a hardware background than vice versa. Is my assumption wrong?
 
Dolce&Banana said:
Actually, judging from the limited number of companies that offer bursaries for people wishing to study Computer Eng., I'd say that maybe things haven't changed that much. Everyone either wants IT or CS grads.



I'm starting to think so too. The main reason I want to study this is because I have a strong interest in the field and I think I'm capable of doing the work (I'm aware that it won't be easy, I'm keen to learn). I've already registered at UP for Computer Eng., but put Electronic Eng. as a second option. Can I just swap it? (I'm still in Matric, haven't written the NBT)



I have an interest in computers as a whole and I want to learn how to make things from scratch. I am interested in both the hardware and software aspects of technology. I also don't want to have difficulty finding funding and getting a job after graduation. I don't know if my logic is faulty, but I think it's easier learning about software if I already have a hardware background than vice versa. Is my assumption wrong?
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1) Technically, if you Do Computer Engineering in UCT, The degree is called "BSc IT Majoring in Computer Science, Specializing in Computer Engineering" I know many people who are doing this degree but have bursaries for CS/IT.

2) In UCT you can change your curriculum very easily if its within the same faculty, otherwise you may haggle but to change faculties isnt that hard either, it has been done, I know someone whos changed from Mech Eng to Bus Sci on day 1 of first year. as long as your marks are good enough.

3) Yes and No. Yes because you learn software way before hardware if youre doing CE. No because programming a SoC (firmware/software) is not the same as programming software for computers. and it depends what architecture were talking about. typically devices (especially if youre looking at different manufacturers) handle memory addressing / interrupts differently. so generally with smaller devices you will code in ASM or C or VHDL or Verilog (dont shoot me if i call VHDL a programming language please ;D) If youre going to UCT, Push for BEng Computer & Elec, or BEng EE although EE is far more mathsy and hands on than the C&E stream, but in C&E you get exposed to more coding/programming
 
Do either BSc Computer Science(computer eng) and then an honours or BSc(eng) Electrical Engineering. Don't bother with doing BSc(eng) Electrical and Computer Engineering.

The latter is for a niche field in telecoms and embedded system development(and firmware) which pretty much means you always have a 5% chance of getting a job in the field of interest, 2ndly you end up doing IT development or BI development which is a complete and utter waste again as you compete with IT guys whom are in abundance.
 
Check if there is industry interest in your project topic, complete the research proposal and then see if you get a bursary. If not move along otherwise you will be in a situation where you have to do phd instead of nothing at all which leads to being told you are a researcher/academic :P

In MSc for field there are only a handful companies offering bursaries such as Telkom, Siemens etc so get the bursary funding(with job post degree) and you sorted.
 
abzo said:
While on the topic, what about masters? Masters in Wireless Telecoms to be precise.
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Whole different matter. UP seems to hate postgrads as they force everyone to do 1 year extra coursework while UCT is much more conventional on par with research-only masters etc.

krycor said:
Do either BSc Computer Science(computer eng) and then an honours or BSc(eng) Electrical Engineering. Don't bother with doing BSc(eng) Electrical and Computer Engineering.

The latter is for a niche field in telecoms and embedded system development(and firmware) which pretty much means you always have a 5% chance of getting a job in the field of interest, 2ndly you end up doing IT development or BI development which is a complete and utter waste again as you compete with IT guys whom are in abundance.
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This is overly exaggerated, when doing Comp Eng. you can end up in a wide variety of fields. The most common ones are electronic design and software engineering but that doesn't mean you're unlikely to end up in others such as RF or signal processing. Heck, I'm doing my MSc (hopefully soon to be PhD) in signal processing with telecomms and I'm working as a theoretical mathematician purely because I love maths and the company is damn awesome.

4 things: 1) your undergraduate degree opens up a million possibilities which then you can either further develop through postgrad specialisation or career-based specialisation
2) Evaluate who the advice is coming from before completely accepting it.
3) It's highly unlikely that what you want to do as a career right now will be what you'll want to do once you're done studying as your degree opens your mind up to things you never even knew you would love.
4) Most importantly: Don't take advice about studying other related, non-engineering degrees. A BEng/BSc (Eng) allows you to apply for fields and ask for money 99% of IT/IS degrees can't (tell me how many IT/IS grads start on 27k [avg 18-22] a month with 0 exp?).
 
Is the EE offered at UCT light or heavy current?

@ crazymonkey I just want to be able to MAKE things and use software to make them to work (hence me saying that hardware is more important that software knowledge, you can't programme something that hasnt been built yet). There's no point in getting a degree and then getting experience in something I have no interest in despite my qualification.

It seems to me that a lot of these courses overlap in regards to the knowledge given and where you can work. It's really confusing.
 
UnUnOctium said:
This is overly exaggerated, when doing Comp Eng. you can end up in a wide variety of fields. The most common ones are electronic design and software engineering but that doesn't mean you're unlikely to end up in others such as RF or signal processing. Heck, I'm doing my MSc (hopefully soon to be PhD) in signal processing with telecomms and I'm working as a theoretical mathematician purely because I love maths and the company is damn awesome.

4 things: 1) your undergraduate degree opens up a million possibilities which then you can either further develop through postgrad specialisation or career-based specialisation
2) Evaluate who the advice is coming from before completely accepting it.
3) It's highly unlikely that what you want to do as a career right now will be what you'll want to do once you're done studying as your degree opens your mind up to things you never even knew you would love.
4) Most importantly: Don't take advice about studying other related, non-engineering degrees. A BEng/BSc (Eng) allows you to apply for fields and ask for money 99% of IT/IS degrees can't (tell me how many IT/IS grads start on 27k [avg 18-22] a month with 0 exp?).
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Thanks. This makes more sense. There aren't any shortcuts and I wouldn't really be studying for nothing if I took and Engineering course (I think). I'm going to a Career Expo next week so I'll ask the people from the electronics and communications companies A LOT of questions and for suggestions. Electronic design and software engineering is exactly what I want so I'd more than happy to do that at my job.
 
UnUnOctium said:
4) Most importantly: Don't take advice about studying other related, non-engineering degrees. A BEng/BSc (Eng) allows you to apply for fields and ask for money 99% of IT/IS degrees can't (tell me how many IT/IS grads start on 27k [avg 18-22] a month with 0 exp?).
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This...
So dude, do a BSc Eng or BEng (depending where you go). Dont touch electrical engineering (light or heavy, its not what you want by the sounds of it, no real software/firmware and you'll be bummed when you have to do masses of electrical machines and power electronics when all you actually wanna do is make robots and other cool **** that actually does cool...uh...****), and also dont bugger around with CS at all with funky honours in EE or whatever.

Do a comp eng or electronic eng (they are damn similar but I'm biased more to electronic eng as I am one and we're all doing much cooler jobs than the comp engs), it sounds right up your street from your previous post and you wont regret it. A good way to get a feeling of whats on offer is to go to the open days and check out the best projects and ask what engineering they're doing - I bet it'll be electronic.
 
Dolce&Banana said:
Is the EE offered at UCT light or heavy current?

@ crazymonkey I just want to be able to MAKE things and use software to make them to work (hence me saying that hardware is more important that software knowledge, you can't programme something that hasnt been built yet). There's no point in getting a degree and then getting experience in something I have no interest in despite my qualification.

It seems to me that a lot of these courses overlap in regards to the knowledge given and where you can work. It's really confusing.
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You can choose light or heavy in UCT, all your choice, IMHO i have to agree with markface, the problem with doing BSc Comp Eng is that you wont do digital signal processing or signals or control engineering, which can be quite alot. on the other hand you will still complete with a full Major in computer science. If you plan on doing honours then go BSc Comp Eng.
 
So to conclude...

Its not really UP vs UCT (either will work)...
Its more Eng degree vs. something else and sure you wanna go into a profession you have an interest in but there's more to it... Firstly, will you get a job (readily), and will that job pay well?... Here you will see the benefits of an Eng degree (vs Comp Sci/IT)... You have more opportunities (and better pay as a graduate hire)... It is 4 years minimum (as opposed to 3 years) but it def has more of a scope in terms of the various types of jobs you can be employed in afterwards...

Now... within Eng... lets just take Comp vs Mech... I reckon on average the Mech guys earn more moola once (higher demand for them locally I guess)... not saying you should do Mech, just know that your buddies will be just a bit better off than you with their undergrad... Electronic is a good option for you to consider as it is kinda similar (and opens more doors for bursaries) but its really up to you... you will easily be able to change from Comp. to Electronic even after the commencement of your 1st year at tuks (they're the same faculty... same requirements)...

I think its a bit premature to start discussing post grad options for you since you're still in matric... I'm sure you'll have a good idea come final year of your undergrad, just concentrate on your undergrad (and matric :) ) for now... Eng does require ALOT of hard work but it'll hopefully be worth it in the end... (which is why it seems unfair that some eng. streams make more dough :) )...

From the Tuks Comp Eng. who wished he went to UCT :)
 
fluent said:
So to conclude...

Its not really UP vs UCT (either will work)...
Its more Eng degree vs. something else and sure you wanna go into a profession you have an interest in but there's more to it... Firstly, will you get a job (readily), and will that job pay well?... Here you will see the benefits of an Eng degree (vs Comp Sci/IT)... You have more opportunities (and better pay as a graduate hire)... It is 4 years minimum (as opposed to 3 years) but it def has more of a scope in terms of the various types of jobs you can be employed in afterwards...

Now... within Eng... lets just take Comp vs Mech... I reckon on average the Mech guys earn more moola once (higher demand for them locally I guess)... not saying you should do Mech, just know that your buddies will be just a bit better off than you with their undergrad... Electronic is a good option for you to consider as it is kinda similar (and opens more doors for bursaries) but its really up to you... you will easily be able to change from Comp. to Electronic even after the commencement of your 1st year at tuks (they're the same faculty... same requirements)...

I think its a bit premature to start discussing post grad options for you since you're still in matric... I'm sure you'll have a good idea come final year of your undergrad, just concentrate on your undergrad (and matric :) ) for now... Eng does require ALOT of hard work but it'll hopefully be worth it in the end... (which is why it seems unfair that some eng. streams make more dough :) )...

From the Tuks Comp Eng. who wished he went to UCT :)
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This man/woman has it right.

Just to add a bit onto that: Most bursaries and companies consider electronic and computer engineering the same. The only difference really is when it comes to electromagnetism (more electronic) and software engineering (more computer). 90% of the time, you'll be able to apply for electronic jobs as a comp eng and vice versa.

From the UP comp eng. who went to UCT ;)
 
Also, to add to this all. Do you REALLY want a bursary?! Really, really think about it as it can tie you down. A few mates of mine had bursaries and its been a nightmare....especially the Telkom/Eskom okes. One mate of mine got shoved into a full on admin job at Telkom...sorting bursary applications for other matric noobs who are asking Telkom for bursaries.
Others managed to get theirs bought out by other companies on graduation but they were pretty much taken advantage of as they couldn't leave...so min salary increases etc.
Eskom sent other grads into the middle of nowhere, **** food in polystyrene containers every night, etc. Treated them like kids.

Now I'm not saying they're all bad, and if you honestly can't afford it yourself then they're great. I'm just saying you gotta be careful.
 
There are a lot of opinions on this forum, and from experience, I can say that there is some truth in most them.

In particular, the comment from markface about bursaries; I know of quite a few people who got shafted like that.

In addition, while it might cause a war, many companies regard Eng > CS. That's the simple truth, sorry. And it's also the reason why engineering salaries start off higher. However, more of it is about how well you perform in whatever role you get assigned, so don't expect it to remain like that throughout your career. I've seen CS grads overshadow engineering grads in BOTH fields (both CS and engineering).

Furthermore, this stuff about heavy/light current; I'd forget about it :) If you stick with electronic/computer engineering (regardless of the institution), you'll have all the doors that you require (based on what you say you enjoy) opened for you.

And this stuff about B.Eng Computer not getting jobs? And even the stuff about B.Eng Computer not getting jobs in that field? Absolute nonsense. The fact of the matter is that computer engineering is a very broad field. While you don't go into crazy depth in any one topic, you cover a LOT of different topics. And the same is true for electronic engineering. So when people work in other fields, it's not that they're working outside their "specialty", it's more that they're working on the borders.

Undergraduate engineering is not about learning the specific skills that you will use in your future career. If you're looking for that, you should rather go do something at a technical university (technikon). Rather, university engineering degrees will give you the technical/mathematical basis that you can use to further explore topics of interest. That's why computer engineering and electronic engineering are so similar; many of the fields that are covered share common roots. At the same time, many skills are acquired outside of the topic being covered at the particular time. Many of the programming techniques and languages that I learned throughout my (computer engineering) degree were learnt "on the side" to accomplish the particular task at hand.
 
Help me!

I wanna switch from wits to either UP or UCT for finance, help me?
 
geekchic_ said:
Help me!

I wanna switch from wits to either UP or UCT for finance, help me?
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You provide us with no background information.

Are you currently doing a finance related degree? what year are you in? Also you are too late. Apply next year. Applications closed for UCT in August or October.
 
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