US politics general thread

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Hamish McPanji said:
Yes, unless that land was already taken by their colonial masters. The whole country was largely subsistence farming
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I don't see a problem with Malawi then. People have freedom and can buy property and start businesses, but choose to live simple lifes. Good for them.
 
konfab said:
Malawi:


Gee a massive government corporation, the epitimay of free market capitalism...

A Malawian Scotsman! That is a new one :p

The DRC:
Started off as a corporate state owned by the government of belgium
Then basically turned into an African version of Nazism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_N%27sele

You don't see any of these failed states adopting a free market democracy with a limited government and property rights, but I am happy to be proven wrong.
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As I said, what are you on about ? Tiny Rowland was our CEO and president. Your excusology is so strong, it can also be applied to any of the African countries you named

What evidence do you need? Do you want me to send you my grandmother's title deeds?

Our country was also the launch pad for Renamo rebels into Mozambique. Sponsored by the apartheid government of South Africa , of course.

And DRC was capitalistic as anything. Everything was for sale to the highest bidder. They even had a CIA agent running the country for 30 odd years.


Edit: actually now that you have come up with these state sponsorship stories, you have excluded SA , Bots.... from your capitalist examples.
 
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Hamish McPanji said:
As I said, what are you on about ? Tiny Rowland was our CEO and president. Your excusology is so strong, it can also be applied to any of the African countries you named
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That is a bad faith argument and you know it.

What evidence do you need? Do you want me to send you my grandmother's title deeds?
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Very easy:
What year are you looking at:
What was the government's attitudes to property rights/ limited state government
What was the taxation rates.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
As I said, what are you on about ? Tiny Rowland was our CEO and president. Your excusology is so strong, it can also be applied to any of the African countries you named
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Source that Tiny Rowland was president and CEO? Wikipedia list a Banda declared president for live until the 90s and then some other local guys.
 
konfab said:
That is a bad faith argument and you know it.


Very easy:
What year are you looking at:
What was the government's attitudes to property rights/ limited state government
What was the taxation rates.
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No it's not, it's based on more factual information than Wikipedia can provide.

And sorry, Mauritius is out too based on your rules. A significant portion of their ICT business was created by government investment in the sector.

And free bus rides for students. These guys are frikkin commies!!!
 
Hamish McPanji said:
No it's not, it's based on more factual information than Wikipedia can provide.
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I would like to hear your firsthand accounts of what went wrong in Malawi. Maybe start a threat on that as it would probably be too much of a derailment here.
 
crackersa said:
It’s his same tactic as trump is causing the racism in America.
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"No, I think it's always been there, but I think the President in charge now has given people -- they don't care now. They throw it in your face now." - LeBron to Don Lemon yesterday.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
No it's not, it's based on more factual information than Wikipedia can provide.
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So you were not willing to provide evidence to back up your arguements.

Hamish McPanji said:
And sorry, Mauritius is out too based on your rules. A significant portion of their ICT business was created by government investment in the sector.
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Actually it isn't.
1) It is the 21st freest economy in the world, ahead of countries like Germany
2) The government's investment into the ICT sector was more of the lines of getting internet infrastructure in place. Furthermore they used some evil capitalism and privatised the state owned telecom company in 1988.
https://www.icta.mu/documents/publications/ictview.pdf
 
crackersa said:
It’s his same tactic as trump is causing the racism in America.
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Trump is certainly a demagogic agitator of racist sentiment, and his presidency has correlated to an alarming increase in racist behavior. But it's completely false to suggest that I think the president is causing racism. He's just empowered the racists that have always been there. As greg said above.

https://www.naacp.org/latest/naacp-sees-continued-rise-hate-crimes-legacy-trumps-racism/
https://www.thenation.com/article/trumps-xenophobic-vision-of-america-is-inciting-racist-violence/
 
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konfab said:
So you were not willing to provide evidence to back up your arguements.


Actually it isn't.
1) It is the 21st freest economy in the world, ahead of countries like Germany
2) The government's investment into the ICT sector was more of the lines of getting internet infrastructure in place. Furthermore they used some evil capitalism and privatised the state owned telecom company in 1988.
https://www.icta.mu/documents/publications/ictview.pdf
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Read up on Tiny Rowland. Anything on Tiny Rowland. Might actually give you a clue.

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/4th-december-1976/13/not-quite-a-gentleman

Because 'Tiny' is much disliked by the South African mining houses, some people have tried to suggest he is left-wing. In fact he has never liked doing business in leftwing countries like Tanzania, preferring those run by African capitalists. One of his close friends in Africa is Mboti Litho *a cousin of President Mobutu's father ... one of the richest men in Zaire, after Mobutu himself' who owns 'the biggest supermarket anywhere in Europe or Africa, an edifice so large that it would hold six full-sized football pitches while 480 American cars could be garaged in the cold stqre.'
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....And most of the state or telcos have been privatised worldwide, or have you been missing the last 20 years.
 
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konfab said:
The onus isn't on me to provide evidence for your point.
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The onus is on you to provide evidence for your point. As opposed some excuse about dictators when it is a capitalist leader that ****ed up a country. The same excuses could equally be provided for the socialist states.

Angola and Mozambique ,for example were fighting a war against multiple foreign powers at the time. Any guesses who that was?

And your example of South Africa is laughable. The state machinery actually made it impossible for people of the wrong colour to own land in certain areas. Definitely more facist/racist than DRC in many ways.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
The onus is on you to provide evidence for your point. As opposed some excuse about dictators when it is a capitalist leader that ****ed up a country. The same excuses could equally be provided for the socialist states.

Angola and Mozambique ,for example were fighting a war against multiple foreign powers at the time. Any guesses who that was?

And your example of South Africa is laughable. The state machinery actually made it impossible for people of the wrong colour to own land in certain areas. Definitely more facist/racist than DRC in many ways.
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You don't even know what capitalism is, it seems.

capitalism

ˈkapɪt(ə)lɪz(ə)m/

noun

an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
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rietrot said:
You don't even know what capitalism is, it seems.
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And in these countries, they were controlled by private owners. What's your point exactly?

I find it odd that you want to argue post independence Subsaharan African political/economic systems....yet somehow you have not an inkling or clue about anything related to Lonrho's incursion into Africa.

Kenya
Zambia
Malawi
Ghana
DRC

These were all states who's policy and resources were owned by Lonrho. Which was a private company.

I do suggest you read up on it.
 
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