US reached debt ceiling...again

Hard Rain said:
Read Alan's first post in this thread. Sure, Obama inherited Bush's mess... and then proceeded to enact the same or worse policies.
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Alan immediately used the opportunity to take a swipe at Obama. I didn't see him doing that while Bush was running rampant.
 
Hard Rain said:
It's no conspiracy; fractional reserve banking and the nationalisation of currency is the mechanism by which government spending can become so uncontrollable...
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alf101 said:
Fractional reserve banking has helped the world move forward.

I can't see the world being a better place without it being used.
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Khan Academy's final video on FRB
[video=youtube;8SAMey9Gl5I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SAMey9Gl5I&feature=player_embedded#![/video]
 
alf101 said:
Fractional reserve banking has helped the world move forward.

I can't see the world being a better place without it being used.
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I'm not against fractional reserve, per se, but when it's mixed with a government-controlled central bank distributing government-monopolized fiat it becomes a major problem. Under private circumstances it would be up to consumers as to whether they feel confident in a fractional reserve bank being able to maintain solvency.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Alan immediately used the opportunity to take a swipe at Obama. I didn't see him doing that while Bush was running rampant.
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lol how was that a swipe. Pointing the divergence between what he said as a candidate to what he has done as president.

The Obamabots can't handle any criticism of dear leader's policies unless it comes with a "but it's mainly Bush's fault" cop out:rolleyes:

In any case even the media are coming to their senses about time you did too...

Chris Mathews of "obama sends a thrill up my leg" fame

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: This week we want to do something slightly different with our "Tell me Something" segment. Let me ask you all, all four of you, what has been President Obama’s biggest mistake in his two and a half years so far? Howard.

HOWARD FINEMAN, HUFFINGTON POST: Chris, on things under his control, not the wars so much because they were built in, his decision to spend all of his political capital in a year and a half of his time on the healthcare reform law I think was his biggest political mistake.

MATTHEWS: Wow. Smart statement.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/04/fineman_obamacare_obamas_biggest_mistake.html


Even Thomas from Newsweek of "Obama sort of god" fame


EVAN THOMAS: Because of Congress. I mean, y'know, the unemployment will go down a little bit, but the game in Washington, it will still be this unreal game. On health care though, I gotta say that's one place where the Republicans are right. Uh, the health care bill is, is a disaster, we're sort of slowly learning that. It's not working. It's interesting, that through implementing it, and it's not working out at all as people anticipated. There's also wildly wrong projections. People aren't -- As it's been practiced, it's failed.

But when I said exactly that months ago the response was an avalanche of whining, bleating and crying "you just hate obama" from the posse :erm:
 
Alan said:
lol how was that a swipe. Pointing the divergence between what he said as a candidate to what he has done as president.

The Obamabots can't handle any criticism of dear leader's policies unless it comes with a "but it's mainly Bush's fault" cop out:rolleyes:

In any case even the media are coming to their senses about time you did too...

Chris Mathews of "obama sends a thrill up my leg" fame

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: This week we want to do something slightly different with our "Tell me Something" segment. Let me ask you all, all four of you, what has been President Obama’s biggest mistake in his two and a half years so far? Howard.

HOWARD FINEMAN, HUFFINGTON POST: Chris, on things under his control, not the wars so much because they were built in, his decision to spend all of his political capital in a year and a half of his time on the healthcare reform law I think was his biggest political mistake.

MATTHEWS: Wow. Smart statement.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/04/fineman_obamacare_obamas_biggest_mistake.html


Even Thomas from Newsweek of "Obama sort of god" fame


EVAN THOMAS: Because of Congress. I mean, y'know, the unemployment will go down a little bit, but the game in Washington, it will still be this unreal game. On health care though, I gotta say that's one place where the Republicans are right. Uh, the health care bill is, is a disaster, we're sort of slowly learning that. It's not working. It's interesting, that through implementing it, and it's not working out at all as people anticipated. There's also wildly wrong projections. People aren't -- As it's been practiced, it's failed.

But when I said exactly that months ago the response was an avalanche of whining, bleating and crying "you just hate obama" from the posse :erm:
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I'm not defending Obama - he should accept some responsibility. But it's difficult to let Bush's two terms as president just pass as if he wasn't a big factor.

_54225175_us_debt_464.gif


Yes it doesn't favour Obama, but Bush is obviously the one who set the snowball in motion. Note how Clinton had to pick up the pieces left over from Bush Sr. - only it was much worse this time around.
 
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alf101 said:
Perhaps you should post another random link that you never read and probably won't understand. That one is ....
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Would you care to point out which parts I never read and didn't understand?
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Note how Clinton had to pick up the pieces left over from Bush Sr. - only it was much worse this time around.
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Clinton "picked up the pieces" by spending just as much, if not more, but financed it by raiding the Social Security Fund...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Yes it doesn't favour Obama, but Bush is obviously the one who set the snowball in motion. Note how Clinton had to pick up the pieces left over from Bush Sr. - only it was much worse this time around.
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yes we'll conveniently ignore it was GOP congress bills Clinton signed into law that brought about the surplus and welfare reform.

alf101 said:
Perhaps you should post another random link that you never read and probably won't understand. That one is ....
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Quoting Salon is like quoting The New Age...


It's that simple: With no Bush income tax cuts, no unfunded Medicare drug benefit, and no off-budget Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the U.S. balance sheet would have been in fine shape for his successor. Then government investment needed to rescue the economy from the doldrums wouldn't have seemed so alarming.

and democrats extended those tax cuts, massively increased unfunded entitlements, voted for both wars....

But they're trying to distract away from the current administrations failings buy constantly focusing on Bush. Failures like this..

House investigators said they have uncovered evidence that White House officials became personally involved in an Energy Department review of a hot-button $535 million loan guarantee to the now-failed California solar company Solyndra.

The allegation surfaced in a letter House Energy Committee Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.) sent to the White House Thursday night, saying he planned to accelerate efforts to understand an investment deal that may have left taxpayers out half a billion dollars.

"We have learned from our investigation that White House officials monitored Solyndra's application and communicated with [Department of Energy] and Office of Management and Budget officials during the course of their review," the letter says.

Thursday's letter, which calls on the White House to turn over correspondence between administration officials, Solyndra and its investors, presents the most pointed suggestion that the White House had direct involvement in the financing.

"How did this company, without maybe the best economic plan, all of a sudden get to the head of the line?" Upton told ABC News in an interview this week. "We want to know who made this decision ... and we're not going to stop until we get those answers."

READ: Solyndra Collapse a 'Waste' of Half a Billion By Obama, GOP Critics Say

White House officials have said in interviews that they did not intervene in the Solyndra deal or others benefiting companies backed by supporters of the president. Yet the administration, from Obama to the Department of Energy, has very publicly praised the loan guarantee.

PHOTO:Â President Barack Obama during a tour of the Solyndra solar panel company May 26, 2010 in Fremont, California.
Paul Chinn/Pool via Getty Images

President Barack Obama during a tour of the... View Full Size
PHOTO:Â President Barack Obama during a tour of the Solyndra solar panel company May 26, 2010 in Fremont, California.
Paul Chinn/Pool via Getty Images

Solar Energy Company to File for Bankruptcy Watch Video

READ at CPI: White House Had Role in Federal Benefit for Failed Solar Company, House Investigators Say

In 2009, the Obama administration hailed the Solyndra loan as the first in a series of federal infusions for "green energy" firms that held the potential to clean up the environment and create jobs. But earlier this week, Solyndra abruptly closed its doors, announced it would file for bankruptcy and laid off more than 1,100 workers.

While Energy Department officials steadfastly vouched for Solyndra -- even after an earlier round of layoffs raised eyebrows -- other federal agencies and industry analysts for months questioned the viability of the company. Peter Lynch, a longtime solar industry analyst, told ABC News the company's fate should have been obvious from the start.
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http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/solyn...f-billion-obama-gop-critics/story?id=14424323
 
alf101 said:
What did Bush do wrong?
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Spent 5 trillion on war which obama then had to keep funding. In an ideal world he should have pulled out by now but he is an american president, you don't pull out of wars unless you are forced.

I think the best question is what did he do right?

Lycan this is nothing like blaming apartheid. Obama is basically a lame duck if he loses mid term elections, meaning he has really only had 2 years in power. There is no way you turn anything around in two years. It took bush 8 years to destroy america and we expect obama to be able to undo all his war mongering BS in basically two years?
 
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killadoob said:
There is no way you turn anything around in two years. It took bush 8 years to destroy america and we expect obama to be able to undo all his war mongering BS in basically two years?
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Oh contraire, this is one of the few parts of governance the presidency actually has dictatorial authority over.

Obama ran on "ending the wars" in 2008 and he'll run on "ending the wars" in 2012. Tricky Dick Nixon did the exact same thing.
 
killadoob said:
Lycan this is nothing like blaming apartheid. Obama is basically a lame duck if he loses mid term elections, meaning he has really only had 2 years in power. There is no way you turn anything around in two years. It took bush 8 years to destroy america and we expect obama to be able to undo all his war mongering BS in basically two years?
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Democrats ran congress for 4 years and still run the senate.

Why did the super majority last for only 2 years? Because Obamacare was forced through against the wishes of the electorate at the expense of focusing on the economy and creating jobs. Even Obama supporters admit that. Had he focused on the economy democrats wouldn't have suffered the heaviest defeat in half a century.
 
Alan said:
Democrats ran congress for 4 years and still run the senate.

Why did the super majority last for only 2 years? Because Obamacare was forced through against the wishes of the electorate at the expense of focusing on the economy and creating jobs. Even Obama supporters admit that. Had he focused on the economy democrats wouldn't have suffered the heaviest defeat in half a century.
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Obama was basically doomed from the time he took over, it was only a matter of time before the collapse happened.

America's biggest problem is they don't allow a president to run for 4 years, lose mid terms and your term is done. You just hope you get elected again and bush did so anyone can. Another problem is the two parties are so hell bent on nailing each other they forgot there is a nation to run.

They will screw over each other over regardless if it hurts americans or not. That must be the saddest part. Even reading this thread, all we are doing is arguing over which of the two is to blame. Let's give them a 50/50 blame :D. Debt still there so now how do they move forward?

Let's get some replies on cutting the debt.
 
killadoob said:
Let's get some replies on cutting the debt.
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Who needs to cut spending when you control the central bank and can just debase what you owe; kicking the consequences down the road to some other poor saps? ;-)
 
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