VDSL and ADSL2+

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Herr_SturmGeist

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Is it just me or does anybody else think Telkom is setting themselves up for a world of pain with the whole ADSL2+ and VDSL 20Mbps issue. Telkom support doesn't seem to know the difference (barring @TelkomZA when asked directly), the ISPs are equally confused and at the end of the day I think what a lot of us really want is more upload speed.

So what's going to happen when all the ADSL2+ users do get their exchanges upgraded? Are they going to be informed or is it just going to be a whole bunch of lines being transfered in the night for everyone to wake up to authentication issues?
 
+ 1 million. Was on the telephone for more than an hour yesterday with this exact problem. Some of the support staff has never heard of VDSL, and more than half did not know you can now get 20Mbps ADSL2+ (with a pathetic 1Mbps upload speed).

From my own research TCP/IP works best with a download/upload ratio of at least 10:1 and not 20:1 like the new 20Mbps ADSL2+. Wish Telkom can provide a bolt-on option to increase upload bandwidth on a VDSL2 connection like supported below in my router line stats:

VDSL Attainable Net Data Rate: 16.571 Mbps (UP) 49.450 Mbps (DOWN)
VDSL Current Line Rate: 2.068 Mbps (UP) 20.546 Mbps (DOWN)


Alot has changed in 15 years since dial-up internet with downlink heavy browsing utilization. Back in those days there were no Skype, cloud services, online gaming and other upload sensitive applications like today. This is exactly the reason why they designed ADSL Annex M to offer more upload bandwidth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_G.992.5_Annex_M
 
Last edited:
Franna said:
+ 1 million. Was on the telephone for more than an hour yesterday with this exact problem. Some of the support staff has never heard of VDSL, and more than half did not know you can now get 20Mbps ADSL2+ (with a pathetic 1Mbps upload speed).

From my own research TCP/IP works best with a download/upload ratio of at least 10:1 and not 20:1 like the new 20Mbps ADSL2+. Wish Telkom can provide a bolt-on option to increase upload bandwidth on a VDSL2 connection like supported below in my router line stats:

VDSL Attainable Net Data Rate: 16.571 Mbps (UP) 49.450 Mbps (DOWN)
VDSL Current Line Rate: 2.068 Mbps (UP) 20.546 Mbps (DOWN)


Alot has changed in 15 years since dial-up internet with downlink heavy browsing utilization. Back in those days there were no Skype, cloud services, online gaming and other upload sensitive applications like today. This is exactly the reason why they designed ADSL Annex M to offer more upload bandwidth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_G.992.5_Annex_M
Click to expand...

But how will they make money with Fibre/Leased lines then ? Its there to prevent you from running a business from your ADSL line. You can read up on it from articles when ADSL was first introduced.
 
Franna said:
+ 1 million. Was on the telephone for more than an hour yesterday with this exact problem. Some of the support staff has never heard of VDSL, and more than half did not know you can now get 20Mbps ADSL2+ (with a pathetic 1Mbps upload speed).

From my own research TCP/IP works best with a download/upload ratio of at least 10:1 and not 20:1 like the new 20Mbps ADSL2+. Wish Telkom can provide a bolt-on option to increase upload bandwidth on a VDSL2 connection like supported below in my router line stats:

VDSL Attainable Net Data Rate: 16.571 Mbps (UP) 49.450 Mbps (DOWN)
VDSL Current Line Rate: 2.068 Mbps (UP) 20.546 Mbps (DOWN)


Alot has changed in 15 years since dial-up internet with downlink heavy browsing utilization. Back in those days there were no Skype, cloud services, online gaming and other upload sensitive applications like today. This is exactly the reason why they designed ADSL Annex M to offer more upload bandwidth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_G.992.5_Annex_M
Click to expand...

2Meg up? Well FML.
 
GoofySmurf said:
But how will they make money with Fibre/Leased lines then ? Its there to prevent you from running a business from your ADSL line. You can read up on it from articles when ADSL was first introduced.
Click to expand...

The whole point of fibre/leased line is that it has an SLA and a decent contention ratio with gauranteed local and international speeds, no amount of upload increase on ADSL is going to convince an IT manager to switch from leased lines. Besides a 1Meg leased line is already so much more expensive than ADSL but you can get 1Meg upload there for mucho cheaply. Lastly, your argument is kinda killed by VDSL having higher upload than ADSL and being made available in SA.

A more realistic reason is that Telkom went with Annex A back in the day because it was more mature and more widely deployed world-wide, to switch to Annex M would require a complete replacement of all their existing equipment which is spectrally incompatible with Annex A and possibly have to downgrade the download speeds for existing ADSL customers (yeah, go look at the ITU docs, wikipedia doesn't mention that tidbit), instead they just went straight to VDSL and cut out the extra costs.

I still want to know what will happen when the ADSL2+ customers get switched over to VDSL.
 
Herr_SturmGeist said:
I still want to know what will happen when the ADSL2+ customers get switched over to VDSL.
Click to expand...
In theory it should not be an issue if the cut over techies complete the green and blue books accurately. In this way the relevant systems will be properly updated so that the switch from the DSLAM/IMAX to MSAN/ISAM goes off smoothly.
 
MickeyD said:
In theory it should not be an issue if the cut over techies complete the green and blue books accurately. In this way the relevant systems will be properly updated so that the switch from the DSLAM/IMAX to MSAN/ISAM goes off smoothly.
Click to expand...

That will never go smoothly, it's Telkom.
 
I'm currently on 20Mbps ADSL2+, my area is scheduled to receive VDSL in the next couple of months, I will report back how the switch over went once it's done.
 
grim said:
I'm currently on 20Mbps ADSL2+, my area is scheduled to receive VDSL in the next couple of months, I will report back how the switch over went once it's done.
Click to expand...

You need a MSAN to get 20Mb ADSL2+, and that MSAN should able to provide VDSL as well. Why would they give the one and not the other?
 
whatwhat said:
You need a MSAN to get 20Mb ADSL2+, and that MSAN should able to provide VDSL as well. Why would they give the one and not the other?
Click to expand...

No, you don't.

An IMAX or a 2510 DSLAM with a 64 bit backplane coupled with metro ethernet backhaul also gives you 20Mbps ADSL2+ and this is what Telkom have been doing for the last few months (in non-MSAN/ISAM areas).
 
FWIW, I was on 20mbps ADSL for a few days before getting the 20mbps VDSL going, and all that I can say is that the VDSL is much faster.

In my case, anyway. YMMV.

I did do tests at the time, but not sure where those are now.
 
MickeyD said:
In theory it should not be an issue if the cut over techies complete the green and blue books accurately. In this way the relevant systems will be properly updated so that the switch from the DSLAM/IMAX to MSAN/ISAM goes off smoothly.
Click to expand...

Will people still need to do the ADSL verification step after the switchover?
 
Hi guys

So my line syncs at 20

Telkom cant tell me if its VDSL or ADSL

Is there some way I can tell to be able to check on my side and or get them to change it?
 
MickeyD said:
What does it show in your router?
Click to expand...

I just checked now that its on ADSL 2+, but telkom tells me thats why I am crashing the whole time, because my line is not syncing correctly.

I lowered the speeds to 10mbps ADSL 2+ and still dropping.

What could the cause of this be? Could it be a line problem or router?
 
sh00t1ngst4r said:
I just checked now that its on ADSL 2+, but telkom tells me thats why I am crashing the whole time, because my line is not syncing correctly.

I lowered the speeds to 10mbps ADSL 2+ and still dropping.

What could the cause of this be? Could it be a line problem or router?
Click to expand...

The cause of the problem is is between the chair and the keyboard at the Telkom call centre and between the MSAN and the Ford bakkie at your nearest box down the road...:whistle:

Anyway, check the modulation type on your router. As far as I know Modulation type G.993.2-B is VDSL, see below example.

Uptime 06Days 16hrs 54min 23sec
Time connected 01Days 01hrs 34min 16sec
Modulation type G.993.2-B
Actual rate (up) 2048 kbps
Actual rate (down) 20476 kbps
Data transfered (sent) 0 kB
Data transfered (received) 0 kB
Output power (up) 11.7 dBm
Output power (downstream) 4.6 dBm
Line attenuation (up) 0 dBm
Line attenuation (downstream) 17.7 dB
Noise margin (up) 30 dB
Noise margin (downstream) 19.1 dB
Manufacturer ID (local) IFTN
Manufacturer ID (remote) BDCM
Loss of frames (local) 0
Loss of frames (remote) 1
Error seconds (local) 0
Error seconds (remote) 0
FEC Errors (up) 149
FEC Errors (down) 4294649973
CRC Errors (up) 9
CRC Errors (down) 0
HEC Errors (up) 0
HEC Errors (down) 0
 
Okay so Charl contacted me today, unfortunately I had to cut the call early as I was at work. TelkomZA person here and he seemed to know what he was talking about

He resynced me to 20mbps ADSL2+

Hopefully a guy comes and actually sorts my line out this weekend :(

Thanks to Charl I might actually have something to work with
 
So seems like my actual problem was at the exchange.

That in conjunction with the PACE routers that Telkom tries to sell you. It doesnt seem to like adsl 2+ lines
 
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