Vodacom IP's and SpamCop

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AzharK

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It seems that a whole bunch of vodacom IP's have been blacklisted by spamcop.

As a result when you try to send mail some mail servers will reject it.

Is vodacom doing anything about this ?

My recent IP 196.207.32.228 is listed in bl.spamcop.net.

Can vodacom not delist all their IP's as it is becoming a problem to send mail using my domains mailservers !

Please Help !
 
AzharK said:
It seems that a whole bunch of vodacom IP's have been blacklisted by spamcop.

As a result when you try to send mail some mail servers will reject it.

Is vodacom doing anything about this ?

My recent IP 196.207.32.228 is listed in bl.spamcop.net.

Can vodacom not delist all their IP's as it is becoming a problem to send mail using my domains mailservers !

Please Help !
Click to expand...

As a rule ISP's do not manage and unlist blacklisted SMTP servers, outside of the provided SMTP relay. Those of you who need to manage the SPAM houses knows the nightmare it can be.

The IP's get assigned dynamically, so if you connect you've got a change of getting an IP abused by someone else.

Actually most ISP's will blanket block port 25, so the only route out is via the provided relay. (We're still contemplating this, I'm nowadays for it.).

Why are you not using the relay provided?

What would be the best solution for you to send your mail? How much mail do you send?
 
vodacom3g said:
As a rule ISP's do not manage and unlist blacklisted SMTP servers, outside of the provided SMTP relay. Those of you who need to manage the SPAM houses knows the nightmare it can be.

The IP's get assigned dynamically, so if you connect you've got a change of getting an IP abused by someone else.

Actually most ISP's will blanket block port 25, so the only route out is via the provided relay. (We're still contemplating this, I'm nowadays for it.).

Why are you not using the relay provided?

What would be the best solution for you to send your mail? How much mail do you send?
Click to expand...

This is a bit of a loosing battle. I have had my share of problems with ISPs who intercept your SMTP connections and then decided to retain it because their server deems it suspect (arb things like certain HTML tags). My mail resides on a hosted server so it is independent of the ISP I use, so my SMTP server will always point at the host (and I prefer it that way).

The flipside is that at work we use RBLs and they are very effective. Especially Spamcop and the dynamic list maintained by SORBS. Unfortunately even the designated relays at SAIX and Vodacom get blacklisted often, to the extent that we have had to make exceptions for them (more SAIX than Vodacom). I find senderbase a good source for doing lookups.

The problem I have with Vodacom not keeping their external IPs out of the blacklists is that the people who use RBLs then have to make exceptions. In that case I would rather you force everyone through the servers you are keeping out of the lists. As long as you are not interrogating my mail (other than virus and high scoring spam - for your own protection) I would be happy with my SMTP connection being forced through a certain hosts providing you worked hard at keeping it out of the lists and avoided false positives if you decided to scan outbound mail.
 
morkhans said:
This is a bit of a loosing battle. I have had my share of problems with ISPs who intercept your SMTP connections and then decided to retain it because their server deems it suspect (arb things like certain HTML tags). My mail resides on a hosted server so it is independent of the ISP I use, so my SMTP server will always point at the host (and I prefer it that way).

The flipside is that at work we use RBLs and they are very effective. Especially Spamcop and the dynamic list maintained by SORBS. Unfortunately even the designated relays at SAIX and Vodacom get blacklisted often, to the extent that we have had to make exceptions for them (more SAIX than Vodacom). I find senderbase a good source for doing lookups.

The problem I have with Vodacom not keeping their external IPs out of the blacklists is that the people who use RBLs then have to make exceptions. In that case I would rather you force everyone through the servers you are keeping out of the lists. As long as you are not interrogating my mail (other than virus and high scoring spam - for your own protection) I would be happy with my SMTP connection being forced through a certain hosts providing you worked hard at keeping it out of the lists and avoided false positives if you decided to scan outbound mail.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to Dynamically assigned IP addresses that are allocated when a customer connects, e.g. using the internetvpn APN?
 
ic said:
Are you referring to Dynamically assigned IP addresses that are allocated when a customer connects, e.g. using the internetvpn APN?
Click to expand...

If I do a lookup on senderbase for vodacom.co.za then there are about 18 vc-x-x-x-x.3g.vodacom.co.za hosts listed a few of which are blacklisted. I assume those are the ones that get dished out on internetvpn? (pleading ignorance on the Vodacom infrastructure). If I recall the last time I needed to make exceptions it was for a host with a similar name.
 
morkhans said:
If I do a lookup on senderbase for vodacom.co.za then there are about 18 vc-x-x-x-x.3g.vodacom.co.za hosts listed a few of which are blacklisted. I assume those are the ones that get dished out on internetvpn? (pleading ignorance on the Vodacom infrastructure). If I recall the last time I needed to make exceptions it was for a host with a similar name.
Click to expand...

yes, you're right.

What if we make static IP's available as a service and you then manage your own blacklisting?
 
morkhans said:
I have clients who would certainly have a use for that. If you are on fixed IP you will make sure you keep yourself off the lists.
Click to expand...

With limited IP's available some type of subscription service will be needed to ensure every schoolboy does not apply, for no reason at all.

What's a fair number?
 
vodacom3g said:
With limited IP's available some type of subscription service will be needed to ensure every schoolboy does not apply, for no reason at all.

What's a fair number?
Click to expand...
The new StaticIP service should be designed to optionally work with [searchforum]DataSIM[/searchforum] - maybe make the [searchforum]Unrestricted APN[/searchforum] a prerequisite for StaticIP, and if the customer does have DataSIM, then there should be a discount applied per IP address [i.e. SIM card]...

IMO R9.00/month [VAT already included] for 1 StaticIP, and say R4.50/month per StaticIP if the customer already has DataSIM.

Might be necessary to have an APN suffix to distinguish between SIM cards, e.g. unrestricted.1 unrestricted.2 unrestricted.3 etc...
 
ic said:
The new StaticIP service should be designed to optionally work with [searchforum]DataSIM[/searchforum] - maybe make the [searchforum]Unrestricted APN[/searchforum] a prerequisite for StaticIP, and if the customer does have DataSIM, then there should be a discount applied per IP address [i.e. SIM card]...

IMO R9.00/month [VAT already included] for 1 StaticIP, and say R4.50/month per StaticIP if the customer already has DataSIM.

Might be necessary to have an APN suffix to distinguish between SIM cards, e.g. unrestricted.1 unrestricted.2 unrestricted.3 etc...
Click to expand...

The apn's have incremental functionality (internet->internetvpn->unrestricted), so maybe we just need a 'static' apn, everything from unrestricted but static IP.

To get routable IP's nowadays is near impossible. We got a Class B for this but it's ony 64K IP's, making it inexpensive might be problematic.

So, we'll need a balance btween value for money and not opening it to abuse.
 
How about an annual rental ? Say R 500 per ip per year ? Should stop all and sundry from requesting. Those that require it, will subscribe judisciously. You may want to limit it to two per customer unless motivated properly.

PS : Thats R 32 million per year if you sell all 64K
 
I'm opposed to a high [annual] rental fee, would prefer a nominal monthly rental fee, also just like DataSIM, the new StaticIP service would only be available to contract customers - that alone cuts out most if not all kiddies.
 
ic said:
I'm opposed to a high [annual] rental fee, would prefer a nominal monthly rental fee, also just like DataSIM, the new StaticIP service would only be available to contract customers - that alone cuts out most if not all kiddies.
Click to expand...

I think the numbers IC has sound very reasonably (possiby just a bit too reasonable - I know how scarce routeable IPs are). Binding it to a contract would be the best way to ensure it does not get wasted. I think a seperate "staticapn" will be the way to go. It should of course be a clone of the unrestricted one in terms of allowing any type of traffic. Would you then allocate the same IP on connection or would the client have to set their IP (probably be simpler if vodacom allocated it on connection each time)?
 
@v3g, customers that have their own custom-APN, do they currently get one or more Static IPs with their custom APN service, and if they do, how are those Static IP addresses assigned|bound to a specific server connection via Vodacom's network? Also, what about IPv6?
 
morkhans said:
I think the numbers IC has sound very reasonably (possiby just a bit too reasonable - I know how scarce routeable IPs are). Binding it to a contract would be the best way to ensure it does not get wasted. I think a seperate "staticapn" will be the way to go. It should of course be a clone of the unrestricted one in terms of allowing any type of traffic. Would you then allocate the same IP on connection or would the client have to set their IP (probably be simpler if vodacom allocated it on connection each time)?
Click to expand...

Will be static, i.e. you'll be issued your own, personal IP tied to your MSISDN (cell number). Every time you connect, you'll get this IP.

ic, corporate APN's get their own, static IP's (I think), but these belong to the corporate's range.

v6 is still a dream.....
 
vodacom3g said:
Will be static, i.e. you'll be issued your own, personal IP tied to your MSISDN (cell number). Every time you connect, you'll get this IP.
Click to expand...
Cool. Gimmie :)

vodacom3g said:
ic, corporate APN's get their own, static IP's (I think), but these belong to the corporate's range.

v6 is still a dream.....
Click to expand...

I got the impression it was a similar setup to internet APN, with the internal range falling within your company LAN. Although I suppose there are probably different deployment options.

v6 will most likely get put off till the last minute, but implementation is inevitable.
 
vodacom3g said:
Will be static, i.e. you'll be issued your own, personal IP tied to your MSISDN (cell number). Every time you connect, you'll get this IP.
Click to expand...

@V3g, what sort of time frame are we looking at here ?

Could it also be possible to give static "private", only routeable to other Vodacom adresses as well (VC - > VC) ?

Possibly at a slightly lower price point (data and subscription) as the customer would be paying both sides ?

This would be extremely usefull as low usage primary interconnects or as backup lines ( and no international traffic for yourselves :) ).
 
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