Vox Telecom take on Telkom

They phoned me 3 times on my land line already! Offering a free trial.
 
This is not really an alternative to Telkom since you still need a Telkom ADSL line which includes the line rental cost (I think its R109 now) in order to use this VOIP phone. So yes, you maybe save on not making Telkom calls but you have to pay R49 rental to VOX.
 
Sharing the interconnect profit with their clients? Well, this is at least one company who admits that their interconnect rate is way higher than "cost plus a fair profit". If only Pieter Jerk Uys could bring himself to do the same.
 
kaspaas said:
Beware:

Check the rates your customers will pay to call from Telkom to VOX before you leap!
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Its actually obvious. Cause when they say they pay you when people call you. That means that people who call you pay a premium to call that number and I won't be surprised if free minutes DO NOT APPLY. Otherwise You can just make a lot of money by receiving calls from people with free minutes.
 
Hey VOX service is not that wonderfull, i have had no endless problems and it`s still not right.
 
I've got a vox line and won't recommend it to anyone. Outgoing calls are slightly cheaper - good point. Calls drop quite a lot - bad. From time to time I have to phone telkom to get telkom to reset my DSLAM if not my vox line just won't work. And you know how long those telkom help line queues are. The line is also not very clear. I now don't advertise my vox line anymore because its just too unreliable. I never had a problem with my telkom or adsl line in the past. Since it was installed it was working close to 99.9% of the time. Vox i would say works 70% of the time. And I have lost quite a lot from that 30%.
 
Cyberdude said:
I've got a vox line and won't recommend it to anyone. Outgoing calls are slightly cheaper - good point. Calls drop quite a lot - bad. From time to time I have to phone telkom to get telkom to reset my DSLAM if not my vox line just won't work. And you know how long those telkom help line queues are. The line is also not very clear. I now don't advertise my vox line anymore because its just too unreliable. I never had a problem with my telkom or adsl line in the past. Since it was installed it was working close to 99.9% of the time. Vox i would say works 70% of the time. And I have lost quite a lot from that 30%.
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But this would be due to Telkom problems and not vox?
At least that is the way it sounds.... not vox'es fault if the adsl lines(telkom) is unstable?
 
QOS over ADSL

Th0r said:
But this would be due to Telkom problems and not vox?
At least that is the way it sounds.... not vox'es fault if the adsl lines(telkom) is unstable?
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Yes correct, but this brings up a fundamental and longstanding argument of using voip over ADSL, (or 3G For that matter) I have always been against this being rolled into a proper commercial and mainstream opportunity by providers ...Why? VOX and others cannot actually promise anything. They cannot provide QOS (Quality of service) as this ADSL line belongs to Telkom. (Skype is another example.......do you complain to skype when the "skype out" service is terrible? No.
So VOX provide SLA's to clients, but read it carefully, they only cover what they are in control of, which leads to finger pointing...............
VOIP cannot replace quality of normal Telco over an ADSL link. It is rather something that you supplement your overall telco solution with. Therefore, if you cannot swallow the downside of relying on VOIP over ADSL, as your first line of telco, dont bother with it. Also depending on which way the interconnect fees argument goes, it may be that Vox has to lower their interconnect charge to Telkom soon and that would take away the "nice fat rebates" they give back to their users.(ie when receiving calls on their VOX number)
This is not a slam dunk in anyone’s book, but something that is cobbled together to provide some savings in certain cases. I know other companies with that have fair interconnect rates with Telkom and only charge 50c to TELKOM.......... making the call to their 087 number cheaper than calling a vox number. Vox wanted to charge a much higher rate to Telkom so that they could position and facilitate the rebate back to the client receiving calls on their 087 numbers. They even try and do this at the corporate level.
The poor consumer that has to phone a vox 087 number (private or Corporate) is being ripped off period. :mad:
 
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At least Vox makes a difference

Our Vox consumer solutions are very different to the corporate solutions which operate mainly on Fibre and Vox Cristal currently does over 30m minutes on our network over the Interconnects
What surprises me, is how South African's demand competition and expect the opposition to wave magic wands, halve prices, treble quality, improve service levels and show zero tolerance for any mistakes. The environment we trade in severely handicaps any opposition, what we and other fledging opposition Telco’s need is support and so that together we can get stronger, if one is not prepared to, stop bitching about the status quo and expect things to stay the same.
There are over 500 Licences, which include companies like Vodacom Business and Neotel who have invested Billions in alternative voice solutions and are supported by investors who accept huge J Curve losses. Vox has had none of these advantages, are expected to grow profitably, compete in an unfair legislative environment and take on mature incumbents who use their entrenched positions to keep us at bay at every turn. Despite this, we have effectively competed and our contribution has already resulted in a general reduction in prices.
It is virtually impossible to grow a fledging Telco business seamlessly without incurring the odd glitch when there are constant network Vox upgrades to keep up with the capacity demands. However together with our customers we do add value and provide customers with a tangible choice.
On the consumer side we have over 12,000 customers, do not use contracts or expect large upfront payments to tie in customers, have twice reduced our prices, share the profits with 1000’s of Dealers, have an extremely low churn rate and save our customers money but judging by some of these comments it would seem we are relegated to the same category as the entrenched monopolists. Maybe they are waiting for a fairy God Mother and I should not be concerned.
 
bullitt said:
The poor consumer that has to phone a vox 087 number (private or Corporate) is being ripped off period. :mad:
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you can thank telkom for that. Vox isnt the one with the high interconnect rate.
 
I have VOX. Havn't had problems except when my adsl was down(during the confed cup strangly enough). Outgoing calls have been cheaper and people still phone me on my landline. Whats the problem? Although it does seem cheaper to phone from cell phone to VOX anyone notice that?
 
I stand corrected :)

but at least vox - vox is free AND when someone phones your 087 number you get a 20-40c per minute rebate...
 
zeely said:
I stand corrected :)

but at least vox - vox is free AND when someone phones your 087 number you get a 20-40c per minute rebate...
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Thats like waving a red flag in front of the consumer. (I would guess from your statement you are a VOX dealer) Get out of "sales mode" and into the real word.
You may as well be saying "Sh*t is free, but may taste better with some French mustard"
I think that statement "sucks donkey balls" and so does the average consumer that I speak to. They can shove that frikking rebate scheme where the sun dont shine buddy.
When I have to phone a VOX 087 number Im paying for the frikking rebate they are giving their client..............DUH! Just give me a fair price on outgoing calls when phoning your network and we will all be happy. Telkom cant offer me this fair price because VOX (and others) are overcharging them..........So either way one half of the consumers will always be ripped by with this scheme..........Also If my ADSL happens to go down, nobody can call me..........which means I have to provision for two providers with a Home Voip solution, but there is only one network required using Telkom........go figure.

Why does Vox not charge Telkom a 50c interconnect, yes its in Vox's power to do this, but they chose otherwise, why? Why not tell us all why you do this Vox???? Come on spit it out...............
We wont mind phoning your 087 numbers if we were not being ripped off doing it. Vox is creating the inflated price, not Telkom. Stop trying to justify your bullsh*t to the consumer. Is this another rip off interconnect rate, to suite yourselves.
I dont give a flying monkey about Vox to Vox thats only becomes a benefit if everyone I call on a regular bassis is part of the Vox community.........my family and friends are not on Vox, so there is no benefit.
Please dont come with a simple-minded response of "you should encourage them to connect to Vox", they simply dont want to.
The SA consumer has had enough and we should not be emotionally blackmailed into supporting these types of schemes just to get a fair deal and "make the alternates successful" what at our cost again????
The best thing that could happen for the consumer is that the interconnect rates to 087 numbers are also exposed and scrutinized, as per the GSM network interconnect rates.
 
The interconnect from Telkom to Vox is the same as from Vox to Telkom... Telkom sets there own pricing... hence the fact that you only get 20c rebate for calls from Telkom.

The reason why Vox gives the rebate is simply to encourage people to receive calls on the Vox phones. Simply put, at 39c per minute to call Telkom, Vox ends up paying Telkom 33c per minute. That leaves 6c profit. But when Telkom calls Vox, they get 33c per minute, paying the subscriber 20c leaves them with 13c. More than double to receive calls. All networks make more money with incoming calls than outgoing calls. It's how they pay their bills every month.

Running VoIP has limitations, namely bandwidth prioritisation. Hence, if you try make a call while you are busy streaming video of youtube, or downloading a large file, you may find the call quality little to be desired.

By locking the phone to one Internet Standard, means they only need to configure one set of QoS rules, box the phone and provide a WORKING turnkey solution.

The Vox phone can be used on other types of internet connections but it means reprogramming the phone (which I have done to get it to work on my leased line). But some connectivities have major problems when it comes to VoIP.

SIP, the protocol behind the Vox phone, requires a public IP address. Your router get's one from the ISP, but it only get's ONE so you can't supply every computer in your office with a public IP. Hence the Vox Phone is a ROUTER, so that it can be assigned with a public IP.

With out the public IP, you can't make calls to other SIP accounts, as your Internet Router will lose the SIP packets.

3G and WiFi all come with private IPs which means that they have gone through a router with a public IP. I have tested on both these services and the product does not work well, especially with 3G due to hectic latency issues.

There are ways around this, but that falls on your ISP. If they issue private IPs then they would need to install a dedicated SIP border control with a public IP address in order to route the calls. This is not an easy task, and can not be done cheaply... if you are on WiFi and your provider is willing to spend the money, then feel free to contact me for advice.

Last I checked, iBurst were now offering Vox phones to their customers, so if you are iBurst, check with them for details, as Telepreneur dealers can only supply ADSL phones.

Selected Dealers, such as myself, are able to supply Vox Sip Accounts with out the hardware. We can supply our own hardware, but it is important to understand that Vox does not let just anyone do this, as when it comes to SIP and VoIP, it's not a matter of plug and play. If I dealer supplies a faulty service then Vox get's the blame.

If you are happy with poor call quality then feel free to use Skype's Skypeout service. They only charge 70c per minute to land lines, and they have no subscription fee as it is prepaid. No need for hardware, and no need for public IP as they supply access to SIP border control servers.

Vox as a company is constantly working towards eliminating the need for paying telkom for ADSL and line, but until local unbundling becomes a reality, they are left with the current offering.

I have been using Vox now for about 15 months, and my bill went down from R900 per month to about R550 per month. Add on the R49 per month subscription, and that makes a total saving of about R300. Maybe to most people that is not worth it... but to me it is... especially when I deploy Vox for a company that has a bill in excess of R6000 per month.
 
schurtek said:
<snip>With out the public IP, you can't make calls to other SIP accounts, as your Internet Router will lose the SIP packets.</snip>
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Thank you for all the Vox propaganda.
Now, explain how it is possible that Skype / Ventrilo work perfectly without that ridiculous fixed-ip requirement.
In fact, these programs work behind a firewall, sharing the same temporary IP Address.
 
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