WACOM / Graphics Tablets

[[)roi(]]

I've read that most things can be done with the Bamboo, especially photography-related editing.

I'm not sure about the various models at all, what is the difference between the Pen and the Pen & Touch, besides the obvious multi-touch? How are you using it, snugglez?

...and how often do you churn through nibs?

The Bamboo is a good tablet for most recreational uses... The difference between it and the top end Intuous and Cintiq tablets is pen variety, pressure levels, tilt sensitivity, functions scroll wheel/strips, tablet size, LCD work surface, ...

Nib use is a personal and tablet thing; for example some people press harder, the Bamboo and Intuous surfaces also recently have tended towards being more rough I.e. to possibly simulate the feel of paper, but this in turn can cause the nibs to wear down faster.

On the Cintiq the surface is glass, hence less friction and less wear.

I don't personally churn through nibs very frequently on my Cintiq, they tend to last me a very long time, but then I'm also using multiple pen types for art (I paint with Photoshop primarily and Corel Painter on the occasion)

 

[noxibox]

Don't go anything but Wacom, you'll only end up regretting it -- they've been the pinnacle of pen computing for many a year, and still the preferred choice of artists, graphic designers, ...

By many accounts these ones from Monoprice are good quality, high resolution and accurate. They do lack things like the tilt feature, which can come in handy, the eraser that is definitely useful and the buttons (with labels on the Intuos 4) plus the pen runs on batteries. But at the price none of that may matter.

Consider that the US prices do not apply to our region, so you should rather be comparing SA with UK prices + shipping + duties + tax.

It's appropriate to compare to US prices plus other costs because that would be the place from which to order if not buying locally.

For your use case I would suggest you don't buy anything larger than a medium size Intuous tablet, large and XL are big tablets -- they take all of your standard work area I.e. no place for a keyboard or mouse.

It can also be quite tiring working on the larger ones.

Btw you might even want to look at the old Wacom Graphire tablets as opposed to Intuous 3 or 4 (reliable and very cheap second hand, if you can get one.)

Now that the Intuos 5 is out I see the price of the wireless Intuos 4 has been dropped.

 

[[)roi(]]

By many accounts these ones from Monoprice are good quality, high resolution and accurate. They do lack things like the tilt feature, which can come in handy, the eraser that is definitely useful and the buttons (with labels on the Intuos 4) plus the pen runs on batteries. But at the price none of that may matter.


It's appropriate to compare to US prices plus other costs because that would be the place from which to order if not buying locally.


It can also be quite tiring working on the larger ones.


Now that the Intuos 5 is out I see the price of the wireless Intuos 4 has been dropped.

Clearly you are not someone who has ever used tablet more than a few minutes, because those features are definitely not a "nice to have"; sorry but from an artists or graphic designers or photo retouching point of view you quite frankly don't appear to know what you are talking about.

Nevertheless I'm happy for you if you find a match for your needs with a CHEAP solution

Batteries LMAO... Clearly your inexperience is showing through, we're talking professional tablets, not toys

Do you even comprehend what you so easily seem to dismiss: weight on the pen, the lack of additional button functions (2 programmable functions + eraser), tilt, pressure sensitivity, programmable features button, scroll wheel, strips, ... -- Sadly I think not!

Btw a larger tablet is typically less tiring I.e. you end up scrolling and adjusting zoom less.
I.e. the choice about size is more about the workflow, than physical effort (LMAO )

If you work for example solely in Photoshop or Corel Painter, then a large surface is preferred as you do not interact with the keyboard or mouse. I.e. I don't need space for these (as they are not used).

If you are however for example, doing geocoding, you need to have a balance between digitizing maps points and entering matching reference data on the keyboard, hence you need space for both a keyboard and a tablet; a smaller tablet better accommodates this type of workflow.

 

[BigAl-sa]

@droid: I wonder how much time you've spent using a tablet/pad? In my experience (thousands of photos - I used to do a lot of restoration/colourizing type work) I found that a smaller tablet was a ergonomically a whole lot easier to work with. Smaller distances means you have to lift your wrist a whole lot less. It really depends on what you're trying to do.

There will be thousands of varying opinions out there, as can be seen from the small mybb sample, on subjects raised on these forums

 

[noxibox]

Clearly you are not someone who has ever used tablet more than a few minutes, because those features are definitely not a "nice to have"; sorry but from an artists or graphic designers or photo retouching point of view you quite frankly don't appear to know what you are talking about.

I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. Computer artists not only did without those features on tablets in the past, but a number of artists are raving about these cheap tablets and willing to put up with not having the additional features.

Nevertheless I'm happy for you if you find a match for your needs with a CHEAP solution

Somewhere I said I had bought one?

Batteries LMAO... Clearly your inexperience is showing through, we're talking professional tablets, not toys

There, there, don't get your panties in a bunch young lady.

Do you even comprehend what you so easily seem to dismiss: weight on the pen, the lack of additional button functions (2 programmable functions + eraser), tilt, pressure sensitivity, programmable features button, scroll wheel, strips, ... -- Sadly I think not!

I'd suggest, before you make an even bigger fool of yourself, that you try doing some reading around about these particular tablets Monoprice are selling. And while you're at it you might even want to read my posts again a few times. I know I used complicated language, so it might have confused you a little.

Btw a larger tablet is typically less tiring I.e. you end up scrolling and adjusting zoom less.

Again I'd suggest you actually talk to people who really use these things. The advice on size comes directly from professionals who use these them.

I.e. the choice about size is more about the workflow, than physical effort (LMAO )

Above suggestion applies. Oh might as well throw in some observation of human bodies and how they work.

 

[[)roi(]]

I'd say you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about. Computer artists not only did without those features on tablets in the past, but a number of artists are raving about these cheap tablets and willing to put up with not having the additional features.


Somewhere I said I had bought one?


There, there, don't get your panties in a bunch young lady.


I'd suggest, before you make an even bigger fool of yourself, that you try doing some reading around about these particular tablets Monoprice are selling. And while you're at it you might even want to read my posts again a few times. I know I used complicated language, so it might have confused you a little.


Again I'd suggest you actually talk to people who really use these things. The advice on size comes directly from professionals who use these them.


Above suggestion applies. Oh might as well throw in some observation of human bodies and how they work.

I know too well, as I will explain shortly.
In your case you have not eluded to any personal experience (I.e. you appear to only refer to computers artists in the 3rd person)?

For example: my 1st tablet was a Wacom Graphire, followed by Intuous 3 medium and then Intuous 4 XL and for the past 2 years I am using a 21UX Cintiq.

I have tested the cheap tablets you refer to, and that's the reason I'll stick with Wacom (as I said the pinnacle of professional tablets, a title it deserves if you've ever used one; I doubt that from your response)

I paint digitally, and have been doing so for over 10 years (so yes I am a professional ), prior to that it was pencils and pastels.

Now that I have shared my experience, care to do the same? or will you only revert with another rather silly response?

 

[[)roi(]]

@droid: I wonder how much time you've spent using a tablet/pad? In my experience (thousands of photos - I used to do a lot of restoration/colourizing type work) I found that a smaller tablet was a ergonomically a whole lot easier to work with. Smaller distances means you have to lift your wrist a whole lot less. It really depends on what you're trying to do.

There will be thousands of varying opinions out there, as can be seen from the small mybb sample, on subjects raised on these forums

I hardly ever lift my wrist, and this is what make's the difference for me: http://www.smudgeguard.com/
I.e. it allows my wrist to glide, preventing smudges on the Cintiq. I have use this for number of years and even with the Intuous 4 rough surface texture it makes all the difference.

Here's an example on YouTube of someone working on a Cintiq with the glove. Clearly less need to lift your wrist. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tiNhoganlYk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dLEubvE5ZQ4

Btw I used to have a similar workflow constraint working in pastels; I.e. trying to prevent smudging in that case would put quite a bit of stress on my wrist, there were similar solutions using a cloth in those days.

As I've said in a subsequent post I paint digitally for over 10 years, so starting a painting from scratch requires quite a lot of strokes, and I tend to work up close on the Cintiq; zoomed in between 200% to 400% for the finer details and of course for smoother looking lines.

On a larger surface I just find I have to pan / zoom around a lot less re much more of the piece is visible (I.e. less effort) as you can see in the YouTube video I referenced for the glove (the only visible wrist actions are putting the pen down to take a break, and the left hand which is driving the zoom, pan, ... function keys and slide strip)

Typical dimensions I tend to work in is:
8.5" x 11" (1275x1650)
16" x 20" (2400x3000)
24" x 24" (3600x3600)

I'm not too bad at retouching photos, but not my focus; I prefer to create my own stuff.

MyBB is btw no digital artist's forum, hence you find occasional recreational use opinions mixed in with more experienced people, as from your post you appear to be. I.e. it in no way can be seen as a good basis for any conclusions for artists, graphic designers, photo retouching, ...

 

[b@nD]

WACOM SA Pricing

Btw you might even want to look at the old Wacom Graphire tablets as opposed to Intuous 3 or 4 (reliable and very cheap second hand, if you can get one.)

Thanks for your advice

I hear your point -- I still think SA consumers get ripped off.

It seems that people in SA seem to think they can get nearly new prices for their old stuff
Intuos 3 is two generations behind.

I have had a look on eBay where things seem more realistic -- problem is most sellers want nothing to do with SA.
Will have to get my US buddy to get one for me.

BTW -- as an expert user what do you think a used Intuos 3 ( without disks , packaging etc etc ) should sell for ?

 

[floydthebarber71]

droid, in all my reading around from kazillions of people who have used tablets, you are the first to express those opinions :/ But you are doing so as an artist, I think most are commenting mostly for usage as an editing tool.

Did you even read the reviews posted about the Monoprice? Your comments are...baffling. You say you've tested the "cheap tablets" that were being referred to. Forget about reading about the Monoprice, so you actually tested it?

 

[[)roi(]]

Thanks for your advice

I hear your point -- I still think SA consumers get ripped off.

It seems that people in SA seem to think they can get nearly new prices for their old stuff
Intuos 3 is two generations behind.

I have had a look on eBay where things seem more realistic -- problem is most sellers want nothing to do with SA.
Will have to get my US buddy to get one for me.

BTW -- as an expert user what do you think a used Intuos 3 ( without disks , packaging etc etc ) should sell for ?

I agree, sadly we're not a big enough market to expect any better... and our supposed trade commission bodies are either corrupt to the core or ill equipped skill wise to provide us with any real support in this regard.

Your best bet re pricing would be someone who is traveling to the US, I.e. typically lowest price market outside of Asia, who can pack a new one in for you, or collect an eBay bargain. Shipping to SA in most cases will sadly cost you more for shipping than the cost of the 2nd hand Intuous 3.

Resale prices really depend on the model of Intuous 3, and the state of the kit. These ebay examples appear to be in the more appropriate price range, considering the age of the kit (in SA some people incorrectly equate the resale value to local new device prices) :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wacom-Intuo...phics_Tablets_Boards_Pens&hash=item19d0ae6d1a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WACOM-INTUO...phics_Tablets_Boards_Pens&hash=item257069a221

Btw for your requirement I think a good Intuous 3 will more than suffice... Still a great tablet IMO.

 

[[)roi(]]

droid, in all my reading around from kazillions of people who have used tablets, you are the first to express those opinions :/ But you are doing so as an artist, I think most are commenting mostly for usage as an editing tool.

Did you even read the reviews posted about the Monoprice? Your comments are...baffling. You say you've tested the "cheap tablets" that were being referred to. Forget about reading about the Monoprice, so you actually tested it?

Yes I have tested it... The things I find wrong with it are mostly covered in my previous postings, but for your benefit I'll summarize for example the problems I have with just the pen, this should hopefully give you an idea of why I call it the CHEAP option I.e. not intended for anyone serious about their art, photo retouching, ...:

1. Pen -- Battery operated vs Wacom's non powered solution. Don't discount this too easily, consider the weight and thickness added by the battery, and then there's nothing worse than a pen intermittently failing re low battery when you're busy.
2. Pen -- missing programmable buttons on the pens I.e. mine are programmed to brush selection, undo and eraser. Until you've used it and become accustomed to it, you will have no idea how it simplifies your workflow.
3. Pen -- missing a tilt sensor should talk for itself, if you've ever used pencils, pastels, etc. I.e. shading using a partially angled pencil, or simulating an angled oil brush.
4. Pen -- missing pen variety -- the Wacom device support multiple pen types: I currently use 3 -- grip pen (similar to a pencil or an inking pen), art pen (similar to a felt marker), airbrush pen (simulates airbrushing, controlling not only tilt but also spray distance)
5. Pen -- missing nib variety -- allows you to customize the feel of the pens.
6. Pen -- level of popular application integration; Photoshop, Illustrator, Corel Painter, etc.. All of these have massive under the cover integration for the Wacom tablet; the other tablets suffer much in my experience in this area.

Basically the Wacom pens simulate the real thing very accurately, can't say the same for Monoprice.

So read a little further than the cheaper price, and superficial functionality and you soon realize that I am pointing you in the right direction. Google reviews done by artists, graphic designers, .... and you'll reach a similar conclusion I.e. Wacom may be more expensive, but it is a case of getting what you pay for.

I would always recommend a Wacom tablet to someone new even for recreation use (I.e. Bamboo is superb for that), and if price was an issue I'd suggest they shop for Wacom 2nd hand tablets.

Tablets like Monoprice compare much in specification with the oldest of Wacom tablets, the Graphire shipped from 2000... this alone should say enough.

As a starting tablet... I would still suggest you look at a good second hand Wacom, because you will always regret your choice later if the reason for purchasing it was to get into digital art, retouching photos, etc....

For digital art the best wihout any doubt is a Cintiq, re it most closely simulates paper or canvas (you see the lines you draw under pen) + they're made to be rotated like you can with a real sheet of paper (you don't have to awkwardly try to rotate the surface in the application, some btw don't support this; Photoshop as example only supported this seamlessly from CS5, basic in CS4)

On standard tablets you initially need to get used to a little hand eye co-ordination, and then set up of the function controls, for example: rotating the surface (but realistically you lose the natural feel of drawing when this happens), hence the Cintiqs are substantially more expensive.

 

[floydthebarber71]

Thanks for the detailed reply! That helps.

Although none of us are raving about the Monoprice on the affordability alone. Did you not read review in the link?

Did you purchase one?

 

[[)roi(]]

Thanks for the detailed reply! That helps.

Although none of us are raving about the Monoprice on the affordability alone. Did you not read review in the link?

Did you purchase one?

Nope, only tested it for a day, helping a friend in Paris (existing artist, going digital) choose between this and a Wacom Intuous.

That was enough to confirm that it is very similar to a Genius tablet or older Wacom tech which I previously owned.

The only thing I will say that it has going for it tracking and pen pressure... Having experienced more it's difficult to have something like this, as it will aways feel like you are taking too many compromises.

 

[floydthebarber71]

Sweet, thanks. For the price it would have been great to try one out, but a little too difficult to get one in this country. Intuos3 looks the biz but I like the touch-ring idea of the 4. Not sure about the Bamboo anymore.

 

[[)roi(]]

Sweet, thanks. For the price it would have been great to try one out, but a little too difficult to get one in this country. Intuos3 looks the biz but I like the touch-ring idea of the 4. Not sure about the Bamboo anymore.

The touch ring on the Intuous 4 FYI is multi function with a switcher button in the middle of the touch ring, so you can e.g.have it controlling zoom, page rotation, brush size, etc.

Nevertheless both the Bamboo and Intuous 3 are good tablets.

What do you need a tablet for?

If you're just starting off and are unsure if this is going to work for you; then a cheaper 2nd hand tablet or even the Monoprice might be sufficient to determine this.

If however you are an existing artist, and switching to digital then I'd suggest you get a 2nd hand Intuous 4 or the 5; alternatively shop around for a 2nd hand Cintiq (if you get a good price you won't be sorry).