Warning: Ripped off by Afrihost and MTN

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smc

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So, I really haven't been having much luck with Afrihost. Back in November last year, at the same time as serious problems with my ADSL billing (documented in another thread on this site, which Afrihost eventually refunded me for, but only after a huge hassle) I also found myself wrongly billed for over R2000 of mobile data. However, this time, despite admitting that it was a problem with their product, Afrihost has chosen either active participate in, or at least allow their customer to be ripped off. Here's the story in brief - this is has gone through probably 50 emails, pm's, phone calls, etc.

At the time that Afrihost introduced their Mobile product, they offered a trial, and also offered that existing MTN cell subscribers could "bolt on" the Afrihost data product to their existing MTN number. I tried that, and a week or two later got a call from MTN telling me that my credit limit had been exceeded due to mobile data usage(!). I immediately checked, and found that (a) my phone was correctly set to the Afrihost APN, and (b) the data usage that MTN was charging me for was at the same time as the data usage in Afrihost's data log.

So, ok, not a big problem, just a glitch with a new product. So I thought. I contacted Afrihost, and the rep openly admitted that this was an issue, and had happened to other users. I should send my MTN bill and the Afrihost data log in, and it would be sorted.

At first, all seemed good, I sent in the info, and got various emails about the matter being escalated to MTN, and how Afrihost took this very seriously and were working to resolve it, etc, etc. I also disputed the bill with MTN, sending them the same information.

However, no result after three months. So I eventually did two things - firstly, I contacted "AfriMan" via pm, and later I also contacted MTN. The eventual result of this is: MTN has "lost" my dispute (this despite my having a email acknowledgment and reference number from them). But it gets better. According to MTN, Afrihost never escalated this to them - there is nothing - absolutely zero - on my account about this. Since they "lost" my dispute, and Afrihost never took any action, the issue hasn't ever been investigated. At all.

I then requested specifics of what Afrihost had actually done about the problem from Afriman - who had this had been escalated to, when, etc. He declined to provide that, just answering with generic "representatives", and not providing and further specifics. He also made it clear that Afrihost did not accept any responsibility for the failure of their product. Here is a verbatim section of his last response:
"If you were on our APN and they billed you for the same period, then it's an error on their side, not with our product. We are not in a position to rectify what another company has billed or imposed, only MTN can do so. We're escalating the issue via our channels as a courtesy, but beyond that this is a dispute between yourself and MTN. I do understand that you have been patient and very polite under the circumstances, but I really am not able to intervene any further here."
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Aka, even if Afrihost sell you a product/service under their name, they will take no responsibility if it fails. Either MTN or Afrihost (or both) will also outright lie about taking actions to resolve the issue. I can't tell who's lying here - Afrihost about taking action to resolve it, or MTN about there never being any actions taken, but one or the other sure are lying.

Anybody thinking about signing up for the Afrihost mobile product: you have been warned......
 
wow, what a balls up.

Won't be doing any sign ups with Afrihost Mobile til I see where this goes. So shady on their part despite the fact that this is clearly an MTN issue, Afrihost sold the product to Afrihost's client and Afrihost should therefore deal with Afrihost's provider MTN to sort this out between the two companies/providers... never leave the burden with the customer.

Quite a disgrace actually - I'm now scared to use my Afrihost mobile account.. time to look elsewhere?
 
That sucks. Will avoid Afrihost mobile until I see less reports of things going wrong .
 
If this was an MTN problem, why didn't they tell you that at the beginning instead of making you wait months :/
 
bullfrog said:
If this was an MTN problem, why didn't they tell you that at the beginning instead of making you wait months :/
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For me, the bottom line would be this:
Very basically, Afrihost's whole (connectivity part at least) business is just reselling MTN bandwidth through nice-looking packages under the AH brand. That's what they've done here once again, and somehow because the client is also their supplier's (MTN's) client, their supplier double-billed the client.

Now they're basically saying to the client that they must "go deal with their (AH's) supplier directly because they're billing you directly for a product you bought from us under our brand (Afrihost)."

Completely unfair, immoral as well as all-round bad business practice.

Afriman please tell your/AH's side of this story, because the more I think about it, and the more people read this thread, the worse Afrihost is looking - in a week when everyone is celebrating WebAfrica's shiny new pricing too.
 
smc said:
So, I really haven't been having much luck with Afrihost. Back in November last year, at the same time as serious problems with my ADSL billing (documented in another thread on this site, which Afrihost eventually refunded me for, but only after a huge hassle) I also found myself wrongly billed for over R2000 of mobile data. However, this time, despite admitting that it was a problem with their product, Afrihost has chosen either active participate in, or at least allow their customer to be ripped off. Here's the story in brief - this is has gone through probably 50 emails, pm's, phone calls, etc.

At the time that Afrihost introduced their Mobile product, they offered a trial, and also offered that existing MTN cell subscribers could "bolt on" the Afrihost data product to their existing MTN number. I tried that, and a week or two later got a call from MTN telling me that my credit limit had been exceeded due to mobile data usage(!). I immediately checked, and found that (a) my phone was correctly set to the Afrihost APN, and (b) the data usage that MTN was charging me for was at the same time as the data usage in Afrihost's data log.

So, ok, not a big problem, just a glitch with a new product. So I thought. I contacted Afrihost, and the rep openly admitted that this was an issue, and had happened to other users. I should send my MTN bill and the Afrihost data log in, and it would be sorted.

At first, all seemed good, I sent in the info, and got various emails about the matter being escalated to MTN, and how Afrihost took this very seriously and were working to resolve it, etc, etc. I also disputed the bill with MTN, sending them the same information.

However, no result after three months. So I eventually did two things - firstly, I contacted "AfriMan" via pm, and later I also contacted MTN. The eventual result of this is: MTN has "lost" my dispute (this despite my having a email acknowledgment and reference number from them). But it gets better. According to MTN, Afrihost never escalated this to them - there is nothing - absolutely zero - on my account about this. Since they "lost" my dispute, and Afrihost never took any action, the issue hasn't ever been investigated. At all.

I then requested specifics of what Afrihost had actually done about the problem from Afriman - who had this had been escalated to, when, etc. He declined to provide that, just answering with generic "representatives", and not providing and further specifics. He also made it clear that Afrihost did not accept any responsibility for the failure of their product. Here is a verbatim section of his last response:

Aka, even if Afrihost sell you a product/service under their name, they will take no responsibility if it fails. Either MTN or Afrihost (or both) will also outright lie about taking actions to resolve the issue. I can't tell who's lying here - Afrihost about taking action to resolve it, or MTN about there never being any actions taken, but one or the other sure are lying.

Anybody thinking about signing up for the Afrihost mobile product: you have been warned......
Click to expand...

I appreciate that this has been a terrible experience for you, and we have discussed this extensively in private messages, part of which you have made public here.

Essentially it comes down to which company billed you, they are liable for the billing you are disputing. If MTN billed you twice on their own APN and submitted billing to us, then that is clearly an error on MTN's part, and they need to resolve their billing to you, in light of clear evidence that you were using Afrihost's APN at the time that you were billed.

We cannot be held liaible for the actions of another company, that would never make sense in a moral or legal sense. You are our client, but you are also MTN's client, and you are therefore directly responsible for your account with them. We cannot intervene, and as I mentioned several times in our private conversations, I stepped on a lot of toes to get your complaint escalated to the highest level of management within MTN that I have access to.

We billed you for our product, that is as far as our liability extends. The same would apply if Telkom bills you for a DSL service while you are on Afrihost. The error in not on our side but on the external company, which you are still a direct client of and therefore have a direct relationship with.

I think making accusations of lying and such are very premature, but ultimately your query belongs with the company who billed you in error. We did not sign you up with MTN and then make you a client exclusively of Afrihost's and not MTN. If you were never a client of MTN's and received service exlusively from Afrihost, it would be a different scenario if you were billed by MTN with whom you have no contractual or service agreement. However this is not the case, you need to deal directly with the service provider who is billing you in error and dispute such billing directly with them.
 
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Pft. I'll make sure to avoid your mobile product.
 
Dean said:
Now they're basically saying to the client that they must "go deal with their (AH's) supplier directly because they're billing you directly for a product you bought from us under our brand (Afrihost)."

Completely unfair, immoral as well as all-round bad business practice.
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I totally agree here and they should sort it out. There's no excuse for such poor service...but the miscommunication and uselessness at the beginning is just a cherry on the cake.

Considering the whole ordeal and a fix was promised, they shouldn't even begin to consider blowing off the client like this. In fact, most clients should have gotten automated credits as it was a known issue and an email sent to these clients.

I wonder how many guys got billed a few bucks and didn't even know it?

Afriman care to provide some feedback on how much money MTN has possibly taken without clients knowledge and what was done to rectify this known issue between you and your supplier.

Afrihost must remember that although this is a problem on MTN's side with regards to billing...and we all know MTN is known for these issues, it is still their product and the supplier they chose to do business with. It's irrelevant where the issue lies anyways once it affects multiple users and is a known problem.
 
Afriman you haven't yet added any new information to the thread. From what I've seen you're just clarifying exactly what the OP said, which while a response is always appreciated, its essentially a waste of time.

In this case, MTN is YOUR supplier. You need to realize that from the customer's perspective, that's all that matters. Sure MTN are also his suppliers for a completely different service, but we're not discussing those services - we're discussing the service he purchased from AFRIHOST. He purchased your product and your supplier billed him directly. Obviously from a legal, contractual and technical perspective, this is MTN's issue to sort out - no one is disputing that. However, as the product was your own, Afrihost needs to take FULL OWNERSHIP of rectifying this problem and ensuring that the client is in no way inconvenienced by YOUR SUPPLIERS mistake.

You mention that accusations of lying are probably premature - and that may very well be the case. But then giving reference numbers and names of escalations at MTN would squash those accusations in record time - why not just give those details? Though I'm not suggesting to stop at that anyway, while it is the least you could do.

(Disclaimer: caps are to highlight the main keywords, not to scream)
 
AfriMan said:
Essentially it comes down to which company billed you, they are liable for the billing you are disputing. If MTN billed you twice on their own APN and submitted billing to us, then that is clearly an error on MTN's part, and they need to resolve their billing to you, in light of clear evidence that you were using Afrihost's APN at the time that you were billed.
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I think the whole forum is aware of this and you re-iterating it only shows Afrihosts shortsightedness.

If you offer a product and a fault that affects multiple of your shared (with MTN) customers...then the companies should endeavor to fix this without user intervention or even knowledge if possible.

You no doubt have a contract in place with MTN and have buying power with this company.

This is a billing issue and I totally agree with you that if one client was incorrectly billed, your course of action is perfectly justifiable. Having affected multiple customers, the product has proven to be unreliable and risky. I like your marketing strategy for selling the APN on contract services, well done...
 
Dean said:
Afriman you haven't yet added any new information to the thread. From what I've seen you're just clarifying exactly what the OP said, which while a response is always appreciated, its essentially a waste of time.

In this case, MTN is YOUR supplier. You need to realize that from the customer's perspective, that's all that matters. Sure MTN are also his suppliers for a completely different service, but we're not discussing those services - we're discussing the service he purchased from AFRIHOST. He purchased your product and your supplier billed him directly. Obviously from a legal, contractual and technical perspective, this is MTN's issue to sort out - no one is disputing that. However, as the product was your own, Afrihost needs to take FULL OWNERSHIP of rectifying this problem and ensuring that the client is in no way inconvenienced by YOUR SUPPLIERS mistake.

You mention that accusations of lying are probably premature - and that may very well be the case. But then giving reference numbers and names of escalations at MTN would squash those accusations in record time - why not just give those details? Though I'm not suggesting to stop at that anyway, while it is the least you could do.

(Disclaimer: caps are to highlight the main keywords, not to scream)
Click to expand...

I don't have an escalation process to query MTN's billing. I spoke to my personal contacts within MTN to try to get some assistance for the client. Therefore I don't have reference numbers to share, but I am satisfied that I have done all that I can to assist here.

In terms of the legal or moral obligation, it would be different if you are not an MTN client and bought data from us, and then received a bill from them. That would be illegal on many levels, as well as bad business practice and we would definitely be able to intervene. In this case a client has a relationship with us as well as a direct relationship with one of our suppliers and in this instance, our supplier's billing to them is in dispute. There is really not much further we can do aside from asking our relationship managers to try to get their teams to escalate or prioritise the dispute. From that point on, the ball is in their court, and the resolution depends on them.
 
Afriman: Can you provide some clarity on the OP's claim that this affected multiple users and was a known issue at the time?
 
bullfrog said:
I think the whole forum is aware of this and you re-iterating it only shows Afrihosts shortsightedness.

If you offer a product and a fault that affects multiple of your shared (with MTN) customers...then the companies should endeavor to fix this without user intervention or even knowledge if possible.

You no doubt have a contract in place with MTN and have buying power with this company.

This is a billing issue and I totally agree with you that if one client was incorrectly billed, your course of action is perfectly justifiable. Having affected multiple customers, the product has proven to be unreliable and risky. I like your marketing strategy for selling the APN on contract services, well done...
Click to expand...

Many companies have APN service through MTN's network. All their data and voice services work via a similar arrangement, so we didn't invent anything new here. If this were the case, the NashuaMobiles and AutoPage cellular's would all be out of business as well.

I have managed to assist other clients in similar positions, only in so far as I have politely asked MTN to intervene. In those cases there was clear evidence and they then contacted the client directly to discuss a way forward, as it affects their direct relationship with them as their client. We have never, and nor will we, intervene directly and refund or compensate clients for disputes with their direct service provider.
 
Pro tip: if you are an MTN customer DO NOT use Afrihost Mobile.
 
AfriMan said:
I appreciate that this has been a terrible experience for you, and we have discussed this extensively in private messages, part of which you have made public here.

Essentially it comes down to which company billed you, they are liable for the billing you are disputing. If MTN billed you twice on their own APN and submitted billing to us, then that is clearly an error on MTN's part, and they need to resolve their billing to you, in light of clear evidence that you were using Afrihost's APN at the time that you were billed.

We cannot be held liaible for the actions of another company, that would never make sense in a moral or legal sense. You are our client, but you are also MTN's client, and you are therefore directly responsible for your account with them. We cannot intervene, and as I mentioned several times in our private conversations, I stepped on a lot of toes to get your complaint escalated to the highest level of management within MTN that I have access to.

We billed you for our product, that is as far as our liability extends. The same would apply if Telkom bills you for a DSL service while you are on Afrihost. The error in not on our side but on the external company, which you are still a direct client of and therefore have a direct relationship with.

I think making accusations of lying and such are very premature, but ultimately your query belongs with the company who billed you in error. We did not sign you up with MTN and then make you a client exclusively of Afrihost's and not MTN. If you were never a client of MTN's and received service exlusively from Afrihost, it would be a different scenario if you were billed by MTN with whom you have no contractual or service agreement. However this is not the case, you need to deal directly with the service provider who is billing you in error and dispute such billing directly with them.
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AfriMan,

As I said on many occasions in the various emails and pm's between ourselves, in my view, if the product has an Afrihost label on it, then Afrihost has a legal, moral and ethical responsibility for it. If the communication channels to your supplier (MTN) aren't such that you can resolve issues like this, then Afrihost should never have brought this product to market in the first place. Because stuff always happens, and needs to be sorted out.
 
AfriMan said:
I don't have an escalation process to query MTN's billing.
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You're a big client of MTN's - I find it literally unbelievable that Afrihost does not have a point-person at MTN who manages your accounts and queries in a timely manor. How is this even possible? Whether it's the case or not; wiping your hands of this issue is not an option in my opinion.

I spoke to my personal contacts within MTN to try to get some assistance for the client. Therefore I don't have reference numbers to share, but I am satisfied that I have done all that I can to assist here.
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Well clearly a bunch of your clients and forumites don't agree that you/AH has done everything they SHOULD(note: not can/can't wishy washy k@k) do, but feel free to remain satisfied never-the-less.

In terms of the legal or moral obligation, it would be different if you are not an MTN client and bought data from us, and then received a bill from them. That would be illegal on many levels, as well as bad business practice and we would definitely be able to intervene.
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Looks like we're all in agreement about this - no one disputes this.

In this case a client has a relationship with us as well as a direct relationship with one of our suppliers and in this instance, our supplier's billing to them is in dispute. There is really not much further we can do aside from asking our relationship managers to try to get their teams to escalate or prioritise the dispute. From that point on, the ball is in their court, and the resolution depends on them.
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Thank you for re-iterating this again, I now definitely understand your inital and subsequent perspectives, though they seem one-in-the-same.
No matter how much we try to give you the client's perspective (remember, these are all your clients discussing this with you), you keep giving us your company representative perspective. I guess that's your job - to manage Afrihost's social media image.

Though from what you'll see, the image in this thread at least is very negative and your position has done nothing to change that - no one is "on your side" for lack of a better/less-childish term - try turn it around rather than trying to re-justify bad moves and decisions that everyone else around here seems to agree are not acceptable and will discourage them from dealing with your company in future. That's the bottom line really.
 
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bullfrog said:
Afriman: Can you provide some clarity on the OP's claim that this affected multiple users and was a known issue at the time?
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The only known issue at the time was that some client's devices reverted back to MTN's APN during software updates or when switching over to WiFI tethering modes. Although settings on your local device are ultimately the client's responsibility, we developed notifications to warn APN clients when they were not connected to their data, to try to minimise the data.

Even in such cases, we were not able to assist client's directly with their claims against MTN, except to refer their existing queries to our liaison to ask for priority to be given to the investigation.
 
Dean said:
You're a big client of MTN's - I find it literally unbelievable that Afrihost does not have a point-person at MTN who manages your accounts and queries in a timely manor. How is this even possible? Whether it's the case or not; wiping your hands of this issue is not an option in my opinion.



Well clearly a bunch of your clients and forumites don't agree that you/AH has done everything they SHOULD(note: not can/can't wishy washy k@k) do, but feel free to remain satisfied never-the-less.



Looks like we're all in agreement about this - no one disputes this.



Thank you for re-iterating this again, I now definitely understand your inital and subsequent perspectives, though they seem one-in-the-same.
No matter how much we try to give you the client's perspective (remember, these are all your clients discussing this with you), you keep giving us your company representative perspective. I guess that's your job - to manage Afrihost's social media image.

Though from what you'll see, the image in this thread at least is very negative - try turn that around rather than trying to re-justify bad moves and decisions that everyone else around here seems to agree are not acceptable.
Click to expand...

I don't see that based on one person's bad experience, which is still being disputed between the parties responsible (external to Afrihost) negates the thousands of clients who use the APN service, get excellent value for their money and don't end up in billing disputes with MTN. I think that should also prove that our systems not only work, but that the product itself is a good one and shouldn't be thrown in to question based on a forum thread.

I think the APN is a great product, and as I've said, we didn't invent it, this is standard offering that goes between any reseller of MTN voice/data services on the MTN network.
 
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