Was Marx Right?

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
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Got this in my slashdot feed:


In case you've been on Mars (or even just on vacation), here's a surprising idea that's been making the rounds lately: there might have been something to Marx's critiques of capitalism after all.

Now, before you leap into the intertubes, seize me by the arm, perform a citizens' arrest, and frog-march me into the nearest FBI office, exclaiming "See this suspicious looking brown guy? He's a card-carrying communist!!" please note: I'm, well, not. I'm a staunch believer in capitalism (hence, the title of my book.)

Yet, I do think — and after reading the dismal, dreary headlines every day, not to mention checking the value of your 401K, house, job, economy, society, and future lately, I'd bet you do too — that prosperity as we know it might be lazily circling the glowing inner rim of the burbling event horizon of a massive supergalactic black hole. And when it comes to doing much about it (wave hello to your new friend, "double-dip"), well, the status quo's pretty much out of options, out of ideas, and running out of time (hey, is that a Congressional "super-committee" being stalked by lobbyists I see? Who came up with this brain-melter of an idea?).

Hence, indulge me for a paragraph or two. Now, please note: This is a hugely divisive topic, and by "was Marx right?" I don't mean "Communism is the glorious future of humankind, my brothers in arms!! (And I am your leader — bow!!)". For, of course, I think we've had plenty of compelling demonstrations that it wasn't. Rather, I mean: "Was there maybe a tiny mote of insight or two hidden in Marx's diagnoses of the maladies of industrial age capitalism?"

Let's take Marx's big critiques of industrial age capitalism, one by one (and with a grain of salt: since I'm far from a Marxist economist, it's entirely possible my quick, partial descriptions leave much to be desired).

Immiseration. Marx claimed that capitalism would immiserate workers: he meant that labor would be "exploited" — not just in a purely ethical sense, but in a narrower economic one: that real wages would fall, and working conditions would deteriorate. How was Marx doing on this score? I'd say middlingly: wages in many advanced economies — notably, the most purely capitalist in a financialized sense — have failed to keep pace with productivity; not for years, but for decades. (America's median wage has been stagnant for roughly 40 years.) In macro terms, labor's share of income has plummeted, while the lion's share of growth has accrued to those at the very top.

Crisis. As workers were paid less and less, capitalism would be prone to chronic, perpetual crises of overproduction — for they wouldn't have the means to purchase or invest in enough goods to keep the economy humming. As Marx put it, there was likely to be "poverty in the midst of plenty." How's Marx doing on this score? Not bad, I'd say: the last three decades have in fact been characterized by global crises of what you might crudely call overproduction (think: too little demand chasing too many disposable widgets, resulting in a massive global debt crisis, as vanishing middle classes took on more and more debt to compensate for stagnant real wages).

Stagnation. Here's Marx's most controversial — and most curious — prediction. That as economies stagnated, real rates of profit would fall. How does this one hold up? On first glance, it seems to have been totally discredited: corporate profits have broken through the roof and into the stratosphere. But think about it again, in economic terms: Marx's prediction concerned "real profit," not just the mystery-meat numbers served up by beancounters, and chewed over with gusto by "analysts." When seen in those terms, Marx might be said to have been onto something: though corporations book nominal profits, I'd suggest a significant component of that "profit" is artificial, earned by transferring value, rather than creating it (just ask mega-banks, Big Energy, or Big Food). I've termed this "thin value" and Michael Porter has described it as a failure to create "shared value." Replace "declining real profit" with "shrinking real value" and it's analogous to what Tyler Cowen and I have called a Great Stagnation (though our casus belli for it differs significantly from Marx's).

Alienation. As workers were divorced from the output of their labor, Marx claimed, their sense of self-determination dwindled, alienating them from a sense of meaning, purpose, and fulfillment. How's Marx doing on this score? I'd say quite well: even the most self-proclaimed humane modern workplaces, for all their creature comforts, are bastions of bone-crushing tedium and soul-sucking mediocrity, filled with dreary meetings, dismal tasks, and pointless objectives that are well, just a little bit alienating. If sweating over the font in a PowerPoint deck for the mega-leveraged buyout of a line of designer diapers is the portrait of modern "work," then call me — and I'd bet most of you — alienated: disengaged, demoralized, unmotivated, uninspired, and about as fulfilled as a stoic Zen Master forced to watch an endless loop of Cowboys and Aliens.

False consciousness. According to Marx, one of the most pernicious aspects of industrial age capitalism was that the proles wouldn't even know they were being exploited — and might even celebrate the very factors behind their exploitation, in a kind of ideological Stockholm Syndrome that concealed and misrepresented the relations of power between classes. How's Marx doing on this score? You tell me. I'll merely point out: America's largest private employer is Walmart. America's second largest employer is McDonald's.

Commodity fetishism. A fetishized object is one which is more than a symbol: it's believed to have actually the power the symbol represents (like an idol, or a totem with magical properties). Marx claimed that under industrial age capitalism's rules, commodities became revered talismans, worshipped through transactional exchanges, imbued with mystical powers that give them inherent value — and obscuring the value of and in the very people who've worked labored over them in the first place. It's one of Marx's most subtle and nuanced concepts. Does it hold water? Again, I'll merely pointing to societies in furious pursuit of more, bigger, faster, cheaper, nastier, now, whether it's the retail temples of America's mega-malls, or London rioters stealing, not bread, but video games.

Marx's critiques seem, today, more resonant than we might have guessed. Now, here's what I'm not suggesting: that Marx's prescriptions (you know the score: overthrow, communalize, high-five, live happily ever after) for what to do about the maladies above were desirable, good, or just. History, I'd argue, suggests they were anything but. Yet nothing's black or white — and while Marx's prescriptions were poor, perhaps, if we're prepared to think subtly, it's worthwhile separating his diagnoses from them.

Because the truth might just be that the global economy is in historic, generational trouble, plagued by problems the orthodoxy didn't expect, didn't see coming, and doesn't quite know what to do with. Hence, it might just be that if we're going to turn this crisis upside down, we're going to have to think outside the big-box store, the McMansion, the dead-end McJob, the bailout, the super-bonus, and the share price.

The future of plenitude probably won't be Marxian — but it won't look like the present. And if we're going to trace the beginnings of better, more enduring, more authentic, more meaningful, fundamentally more humane paradigm for prosperity, perhaps it's worthwhile exploring — even when we don't agree with them — the critiques and prophecies of those who already challenged yesterday's.


NB: This is a divisive topic. Let's stay civilized, enlightened, and keep a sense of humor. Let's discuss the issues and ideas in the comments — not just defend ideologies by pointing fingers and calling one another names.
http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2011/09/was_marx_right.html

For those able to read past the headline... what do you think?
 
Conspiracy videos usually bring this up but ofc with their own agendas.
 
Marxism was so last century :erm:
 
*Me looks at old husk of collapsed soviet union*

Nah, I think it's save to say Marx was decidedly wrong. This crisis was caused by monetary manipulation, bat**** crazy spending, disproportional taxing, government bailouts and a lack of accountability. And a good portion of good 'ol corruption.
 
*Me looks at old husk of collapsed soviet union*

Nah, I think it's save to say Marx was decidedly wrong. This crisis was caused by monetary manipulation, bat**** crazy spending, disproportional taxing, government bailouts and a lack of accountability. And a good portion of good 'ol corruption.

Please read the article. Sigh.

I find his critiques close to the mark. The problem with capitalism is humans, and our greedy and corrupt nature. If not for us, it would be the perfect system.
 
*Me looks at old husk of collapsed soviet union*

Nah, I think it's save to say Marx was decidedly wrong. This crisis was caused by monetary manipulation, bat**** crazy spending, disproportional taxing, government bailouts and a lack of accountability. And a good portion of good 'ol corruption.

What specifically in my OP was he wrong about and why? Im confused by your answer in relation to whats talked about in the OP.
 
Please read the article. Sigh.

I find his critiques close to the mark. The problem with capitalism is humans, and our greedy and corrupt nature. If not for us, it would be the perfect system.

Agreed. I believe Capitalism thrives on exploitation and has no mechanism to deal with it or poverty I find Marx`s thinking on Capitalism to be correct in this regard (and only what is discussed in the OP). The communists also say that their system is the perfect system if not for the fallibility of humans. If all humans worked equally as hard in a communist system would it fail?.

So I guess systems we use must take into account that its got humans and theyre fallible.
 
@Geriatrix

The article actually has nothing to do with communism, or why communism does or does not work. It simply points out problems with capitalism.
 
No, I don't think so.
In fact, I think it was the west implementing many of marx's philosophies that is responsible for it's decline. As we have adopted more and more of his ideas, things have been getting worse and worse. Take a look at his social ideals, and then take a look at the problems western societies face today.
 
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The problem with capitalism is humans, and our greedy and corrupt nature.

Communism failed partly because exact economic planning is just not possible, but also because of the greedy and corrupt nature of humans - that part applies to all of the systems !!!
 
Does Capitalism fail in practice because it has no mechanism for dealing with poverty? Or at least none of which I am aware of.
 
Capitalist countries have increasingly adopted socialist leaning policies as a mechanism. Why are they only failing NOW?

Unregulated greed imho. Derivatives and all that stuff. Im pretty sure over lending played a large part in all of this as well. Also, a lot of the issues actually discussed in the OP.
 
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No, I don't think so.
In fact, I think it was the west implementing many of marx's philosophies that is responsible for it's decline. As we have adopted more and more of his ideas, things have been getting worse and worse. Take a look at his social ideals, and then take a look at the problems western societies face today.

Seems so. The more a society adopts his ideas the bigger basket case they become...

Unregulated greed imho. Derivatives and all that stuff. Im pretty sure over lending played a large part in all of this as well. Also, a lot of the issues actually discussed in the OP.

Odd then that a heavily regulated Europe is in a debt crises.
 
The financial crisis was triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system in 2008.[3] The collapse of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2007, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, damaging financial institutions globally.[4] Questions regarding bank solvency, declines in credit availability and damaged investor confidence had an impact on global stock markets, where securities suffered large losses during 2008 and early 2009. Economies worldwide slowed during this period, as credit tightened and international trade declined.[5] Governments and central banks responded with unprecedented fiscal stimulus, monetary policy expansion and institutional bailouts. Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009.[6][7][8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis

What started the strains on the financial systems? Some blind ideological defenders wanna blame welfare, but lets be honest... it was all capitalism and the problems mentioned in the OP that has lead the world to this place. Blindly blame welfare all you want, but these financial issues were not caused by social programs, but with capitalistic markets out of control. Its as simple as that.

There has to be a healthy mix between the two (capitalism and welfare) and it has to be smartly managed.
 
Seems so. The more a society adopts his ideas the bigger basket case they become...



Odd then that a heavily regulated Europe is in a debt crises.

The financial markets were not well regulated - you cannot say that financial markets were heavily regulated what with all the reckless lending and rampant speculation (naked shorts, etc).

Also, if the Greeks had bothered to work, and not to spend all their time on tax evasion, they would not have run into problems.
 
meh Europe would have weathered the storm had they not so heavily indebted themselves funding their nanny state during the bubble. Now the market has corrected itself and they're going bust.

You want to have your cake and to eat it too. You want the economic growth that only comes with de regulation and lower taxation but you can't fund the nanny state without high taxation and after all a nanny state is by definition heavy regulation :o
 
Some people profit when others suffer.
Distribution of wealth


Economic inequality 1916-2006.
The very rich lost relatively less in the crisis than the remainder of the population, widening the wealth gap between the economic class at the very top of the demographic pyramid and everyone else beneath them. Thus the top 1% who owned 34.6% of the nation's wealth in 2007 increased their proportional share to 37.1% by 2009.[citation needed]
Typical American families did not fare as well, nor did those "wealthy-but-not wealthiest" families just beneath the pyramid's top. On the other hand, half of the poorest families did not have wealth declines at all during the crisis. The Federal Reserve surveyed 4,000 households between 2007 and 2009, and found that the total wealth of 63 percent of all Americans declined in that period. 77 percent of the richest families had a decrease in total wealth, while only 50 percent of those on the bottom of the pyramid suffered a decrease.[194]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis
 
The top 1 percent's share of national income has doubled over the past three decades (from 10 percent in 1981 to well over 20 percent now). The richest one-tenth of 1 percent's share has tripled. And they're doing better than ever. According to a new analysis by the Wall Street Journal, total compensation and benefits at publicly-traded Wall Street banks and securities firms hit a record in 2010 -- $135 billion. That's up 5.7 percent from 2009.

Yet, remarkably, taxes on the top have plummeted. From the 1940s until 1980, the top tax income tax rate on the highest earners in America was at least 70 percent. In the 1950s, it was 91 percent. Now it's 35 percent. Even if you include deductions and credits, the rich are now paying a far lower share of their incomes in taxes than at any time since World War II.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-we-must-raise-taxes-o_b_844606.html
 
The financial markets were not well regulated - you cannot say that financial markets were heavily regulated what with all the reckless lending and rampant speculation (naked shorts, etc).

It's Europe which is in a debt crises which is far more regulated in general than the U.S who have a debt problem but not a crises

Also, if the Greeks had bothered to work, and not to spend all their time on tax evasion, they would not have run into problems.

and why did they evade taxes because it was so high. You could raise income taxes to 90% and spend like a drunkard and when the country goes bust because inevitably people evade the tax you can turn around and say "oh but if they hadn't dodged the tax man everything would have been fine" :rolleyes:
 
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