We have a "Spineless" government!

[ToxicBunny]

You're quite the expert, also quite a dick but knowledgeable nonetheless.

So then according to you, it would be legal to send SAND Forces into Somalia to quietly retrieve our citizens held against their will?

If so why not? I do not think it would cause a war! It would not be an attack on the people but rather an attack on the terrorists!

You clearly have little to know understanding of how fragile the political structure is on this continent..

It would be seen as a clear act of war (or taken as such) and the political fallout would be immense.

 

[JStrike]

You're quite the expert, also quite a dick but knowledgeable nonetheless.

So then according to you, it would be legal to send SAND Forces into Somalia to quietly retrieve our citizens held against their will?

If so why not? I do not think it would cause a war! It would not be an attack on the people but rather an attack on the terrorists!

The Military (specifically South African Special Forces Brigade) would be the correct option to extract them. However, sending the military into another country without that countries permission is an Act of War (and would require parliaments approval iirc). While not really a problem with Somalia, as they have almost no form of government, it would create a diplomatic problem with other countries that we deal with in Africa.

For all the good intentions behind it, there would be a lot of ramifications for South Africa, both foreseeable and unforeseeable

 

[StonerStuart]

Little to none, I agree. Ok well then let me refrain from trying to understand a topic I have no knowledge about.

I just think there is 'something' that our government can do to get them back, not a negotiation with the terrorists but with the Somali gov!

 

[ToxicBunny]

Which Somali government exactly would they talk to?

 

[ponder]

But sending them into another country would be an act of war...

Does the country actually have a functional government for starters? Just asking with all the schit that happened there.

 

[Kornhub]

I think I read on the news that al shababa or whatever say that the british want to colonize them, I loled

 

[JStrike]

Does the country actually have a functional government for starters? Just asking with all the schit that happened there.

Technically yes. But effectively no.

But it's still an Act of War, and the consequences wouldn't be with a Somali government, but with other African countries that would then see us as interventionist, and close their doors to us (And would effect our position as mediators in conflicts)

 

[Mila]

I think I read on the news that al shababa or whatever say that the british want to colonize them, I loled

:twisted: those pesky brits at it again

 

[Mila]

Technically yes. But effectively no.

But it's still an Act of War, and the consequences wouldn't be with a Somali government, but with other African countries that would then see us as interventionist, and close their doors to us (And would effect our position as mediators in conflicts)

They are Muslims? ( Majority ? )

Just feel like you do not invade a Muslim Country.. with or without the government's say so.

 

[JStrike]

Little to none, I agree. Ok well then let me refrain from trying to understand a topic I have no knowledge about.

I just think there is 'something' that our government can do to get them back, not a negotiation with the terrorists but with the Somali gov!

We could ask the Somali government to allow us to send in a team from the South African Special Forces Brigade (SANDF) to extract them in "co-operation" with the Somali Government (Which would be tricky to negotiate. Governments seldom want foreign government's military operating on their soil).
We would then be faced with what could go wrong and the consequences thereof.
If the mission fails, and the SA citizens die, ok that sucks, but no biggie.
If the operation causes other captives from the USA, France, UK, etc to be killed we would have a massive headache on our hands

 

[ponder]

Technically yes. But effectively no.

But it's still an Act of War, and the consequences wouldn't be with a Somali government, but with other African countries that would then see us as interventionist, and close their doors to us (And would effect our position as mediators in conflicts)

Would be no loss.

 

[Polymathic]

exactly, two people are two people, no value can be placed on them.

R57000 per person if you going by GDP

 

[LazyLion]

If this were your family, would you be saying the same?

Yes, in fact I think I would be pretty mad at them for venturing into dangerous territory against my advice.

You can try and raise the money and pay it, but the pirates will just demand more.

This is a no win situation. I know it must be terrible for their families, but paying the ransom is not the way to end this.

 

[LazyLion]

US rescues hostages from Somali pirates

http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/us-rescues-hostages-from-somali-pirates-1.1220545

AMERICAN helicopters swooped into Somalia yesterday and rescued a US citizen and a Dane after a shootout with pirates holding them hostage, in a rare raid into the Horn of Africa nation to free foreign captives.

The aid workers, American Jessica Buchanan and Dane Poul Hagen Thisted, were kidnapped from the town of Galkayo in the semi-autonomous Galmudug region in October while working for the Danish De-mining Group.

“This case is special… We are dealing with one of the hostages having an illness which is very serious, and this is the reason the decision was made to go in and take action,” Danish Foreign Minister Villy Sovndal told Denmark’s TV2 News.

“We cannot conclude… that it is something that will be done in future cases.”

The Danish Refugee Council said Buchanan and Thisted were unharmed and at a safe location. Media reports said they had been flown to neighbouring Djibouti, home to the only US military base in Africa and France’s largest base on the continent.

People involved with the hostages had said earlier this month Buchanan was suffering from a possible kidney infection.

Somali pirate gangs typically seize ships in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden, and hold the crews until they receive a ransom. The kidnapping of the aid workers in Galkayo was an unusual case of a pirate gang being behind a seizure on land.

While US and French forces have intervened to rescue pirate hostages at sea, attacks on pirate bases are very rare.

Galmudug leader Mohamed Ahmed Alim said nine pirates were killed and five captured during the rescue operation near the pirate haven of Haradheere.

Alim was speaking from Hobyo, another pirate base north of Haradheere, where he said he was negotiating the release of an American journalist seized on Saturday, also from Galkayo.

“About 12 US helicopters are now at Galkayo. We thank the United States. Pirates have spoilt the whole region’s peace and ethics. They are mafia,” Alim said.

Pirates and local elders say the American journalist and a number of sailors from India, South Korea, the Philippines and Denmark are being held by pirate gangs.

A British tourist kidnapped from Kenya on September 11, 2011 is also still held captive in Somalia.

America’s NBC News, citing US officials, said two teams of US Navy Seals (special forces) landed by helicopter and rescued the hostages after a gunbattle with the kidnappers.

The freed hostages were then taken by helicopter to an undisclosed location.

US President Barack Obama was overheard congratulating Defence Secretary Leon Panetta, apparently for the success of the operation, as Obama entered the House of Representatives chamber on Tuesday for his annual State of the Union speech.

“Leon. Good job tonight. Good job tonight,” Obama said.

Panetta visited US troops in Djibouti last month on his way to Afghanistan and Iraq, in a stopover that reflected Obama’s growing focus on the militant and piracy threats from Yemen and the eastern edge of Africa.

In Djibouti, the US has a platform to monitor – partly by using surveillance drones – al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen and Somalia’s al-Shabaab, a hardline rebel group with links to al-Qaeda.

Somalia’s government applauded the mission and said it welcomed any operation against pirates.

US special forces killed senior al-Qaeda militant Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan in a raid in southern Somalia in 2009. Several other al-Qaeda or al-Shabaab officials have been killed in US drone strikes in Somalia over the past few years.

It was also US Navy Seals who killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in a raid on his Pakistani home in May.

Best way to deal with the pirates.
When a lot of them start dying they will quickly re-think this business that they are in.

Note the underlined section.

 

[marine1]

Best way to deal with the pirates.
When a lot of them start dying they will quickly re-think this business that they are in.

Amen

 

[JStrike]

They are Muslims? ( Majority ? )

Just feel like you do not invade a Muslim Country.. with or without the government's say so.

And there is that.
Al Qaeda operates out of there (With the USA running operations to get rid of them)

Do we want to do something that could effectively make us targets for for terrorism (in the form of Al Qaeda)?

 

[TonyA]

I thought the pirates operating out of Somalia were in it purley for financial gain, not becuase of any political allegiance. Somalia is a failed state, has no effective form of Government.

 

[Eskimos]

No government negotiates with terrorists period

This is true. It may suck but enable terrorists to benefit from their actions they will keep repeating it.

Yes, however other governments go fetch their people, they don't just leave them to rot!

Very few governments actually do this, they also have to go through a lot to mount a mission and its often the terrorists they are after and the victims are bonus points. They obviously won't admit that a by-product of their operation though. You also can't compare us to say the Americans. They can start wars and pretty much do as they please and face limited backlash. Let someone else do the same and the UN/USA seems to wake up.

Yes understandable, no gov negotiates! But what's stopping our government from going over and killing the hostage takers and securing the hostages? Why must we they just let them sit there rotting away going crazy? To me that is spineless!

Several things but to name a few - the AU
- International law
- Somalia law/government
- African relations

I fully support not negotiating with these ********. But, these are SA citizens. Our guavamint should be doing all they can to get them out! Army should be mobilised, what's left of it!

Its unfortunately 2 citizens. To risk the massive fallout for 2 people, would obviously be huge compared to the gain (from the government's point of view)

Then it seems south africa is helpless when it comes to terrorism... maybe we should speak to some other country. just immagine how it would be if our country is taken over by the chinese military? we would be ****ed! we have nothing to protect us. we would really have to rely on the UN or some other military coming in to protect us.

i just use the chinese as an example because they are many... and they are pretty hardcore!

Come now, lets be serious. If we are underattack then we would mobilise and counter attack. Its easy to justify self-defence, not so easy to justify attacking someone in international waters.

 

[FNfal]

WTF every body know there are pirates on the top of east coast of Africa ,,,,play with fire get burnt

 

[Y'all Qaeda]

Just a thought, but Somalia is still struggling with hunger.. So withhold any food supplies until pirates stop their business, and watch how quickly the local populace turns on them..