Webafrica support is useless

[portcullis]

I don't often launch into tyrades, but tonight those idiots in the Webafrica call centre have dropped the last straw that's broken the camel's back.

One of our clients uses his internet connection to the max. He's only got a 256Kb link, but that thing sits on 256Kb all day and most of the night too. At first I thought they were downloading movies and TV series, but then I discovered exactly how big these advert files are that the arty lot send to each other for further work or approval. They really need to buy a bigger link, but they decided on another route. They have an ADSL line contract that it seems Telkom won't release them from, so they decided to buy a local only cheapo connection from WebAfrica.

Next thing I get a call "Can you please make some changes to the routing so that all the local traffic goes down the ADSL and all the international traffic goes down the radio link?"

Done.

Next day's call "It's not working". I check the logs and WA is kicking them out. They log into their control panel and discover those big files really do eat bandwidth and they get a topup. Next I must change routing again. This time they only want their VoIP to Telfree to go through the ADSL. Everything else goes over the radio.

I removed the 800+ routes to local subnets from the router and add one for Telfree.

This afternoon they want to know why their switchboard doesn't work. I experiment.
Route traffic through WA, SIP doesn't work.
Route traffic through us, SIP works just fine.

Time to call WA.

Ding ding ding. Dong dong dong. Tingaling aling aling...

Anyone who's called them will know exactly what I'm talking about.

20 minutes (give or take) later. I get to talk to some "advanced engineer". When I told him I was having problems with SIP, his head went blank and he transferred me to a "level 2" support person.

This guy obviously designs spaceships and calculates interplanetary projectories in his spare time as his first question to me after I'd told him I have a problem with an Asterisk server was "is that something to do with web hosting?"

He eventually decides to put me through to another technician and hey presto, I'm number whatever in the queue again.

Ding ding ding. Dong dong dong. Tingaling aling aling...

Eventually I get to the front and the operator cuts me off.

I press redial and go through the motions only to be cut off after another fruitless 12 minute Ding ding ding. Dong dong dong. Tingaling aling aling....

Are WebAfrica support really this useless?

More importantly, do they block SIP on their "local only" service?

Hopefully somebody from WA will read this and raise merry hell amongst their useless support staff.

 

[Dean]

WA support is more useful than this thread's topic...

I wouldn't call their staff useless at all... I find their support levels to be the BEST in the industry, as far as commerical ISP support goes.

I think it's safe to assume that the average support desk operater is probably not familiar in any way with Asterisk - so you I wouldn't expect much wrt this kind of stuff from anything below their top level support.

Other than the fact that your calls were dropped by either the support person or their telephone system... is there any real problem here?

The long wait is suprising... longest I've ever had to wait was about 12 minutes - that was at 3am.

 

[portcullis]

Maybe the clever guys had gone home

I'm glad that you had such success with them and that this appears to be a limited problem.

I don't provide client facing support. However, I do deal with matters that are passed on to me by the client facing guys in our organisation. They have all been trained to immediately escalate terms like Asterisk, SIP, IP Video, Web Server Down etc to us guys who know more about it than they do.

This is where I have an issue with WA. None of the WA support desk operatives were willing to put me through to the correct people, or willing to fess up that the correct people had gone home and I should call back another time. Instead they just put me on hold until the call died and then cut me off when they saw the caller ID of the "problem customer".

Dean, since you get on so well with them, would you mind calling them and finding out why SIP circuits originating from ADSL connections with their @wadsl.local user names can't terminate to SIP servers at Imperial Online (all local) when using WA's "local only" ADSL package? That's the SAIX one, not the IS one.

You may need to explain to them that it's possible to do a traceroute to the SIP servers, so we know they are there and on line, we just can't connect to them. When we route the same traffic via MTN Business over fibre or IS over ADSL, the connections terminate without any problems.

 

[guest2013-1]

It sounds like a SAIX issue to me, not a Web Africa issue. Why did you go with the SAIX local only bandwidth anyway?

 

[portcullis]

It sounds like a SAIX issue to me, not a Web Africa issue. Why did you go with the SAIX local only bandwidth anyway?

If it is a SAIX issue, then surely all the other "local only" SAIX accounts resold by other ISPs would have the same problem and these forums would be flooded with queries?

The Telfree installer manual (that's tonight's bedtime reading) recommends Telkom (SAIX yes?) ADSL as the preferred connection if the client doesn't have a leased line of some sort.

I have no idea why they chose the WA account. Probably the thought of paying R95 a month for the connection.

 

[guest2013-1]

If it is a SAIX issue, then surely all the other "local only" SAIX accounts resold by other ISPs would have the same problem and these forums would be flooded with queries?

The Telfree installer manual (that's tonight's bedtime reading) recommends Telkom (SAIX yes?) ADSL as the preferred connection if the client doesn't have a leased line of some sort.

I have no idea why they chose the WA account. Probably the thought of paying R95 a month for the connection.

Well to be honest, in the past 7 years I've been on this forum this is the first time I've heard about Telfree being moaned about on a SAIX local-only account.

And to be more than honest with you, I haven't had much experience (or knew) that you could get a local-only SAIX account.

So, to save yourself the heart-ache. Why not just get a SAIX local-only account from someplace else to test? A friend's SAIX account perhaps?

The only thing WA really handles (for now anyway) is the authentication (RADIUS) to the SAIX (or IS) networks. They're basically just the middleman.

Why is your client not using a 4mbps line with uncapped capabilities? I have a client (publishing) who has 2 lines. One 512k uncapped line for email (and everything else) and a 4mbps line for uploading/downloading their advertising material.

Oh and they're using a Samsung LCR thing instead of Telfree/SIP. I'm not being ignorant, just curious

 

[portcullis]

Well to be honest, in the past 7 years I've been on this forum this is the first time I've heard about Telfree being moaned about on a SAIX local-only account.

We have one of their circuits in our Asterisk box and it just works. The quality is always good and there just aren't any issues.

I've been fiddling with this lot all evening and tried to replicate the problem using WA's trial bandwidth and snap! I couldn't get a Telfree circuit or a Switch Telecom circuit (that have been configured on Atcom phones and that are due to go out to clients in the morning) to work.

Both work just fine on a Datapro "Gold" ADSL.

This is weird stuff.

And to be more than honest with you, I haven't had much experience (or knew) that you could get a local-only SAIX account.

Neither did I until about two days ago

Why is your client not using a 4mbps line with uncapped capabilities? I have a client (publishing) who has 2 lines. One 512k uncapped line for email (and everything else) and a 4mbps line for uploading/downloading their advertising material.

Oh and they're using a Samsung LCR thing instead of Telfree/SIP. I'm not being ignorant, just curious

We can do capacity planning until you're blue in the face, but the client is always right - even when he's so wrong it's scary. I didn't recommend that they buy the 256Kb option. They should have bought one of our E1's.

 

[guest2013-1]

We have one of their circuits in our Asterisk box and it just works. The quality is always good and there just aren't any issues.

I've been fiddling with this lot all evening and tried to replicate the problem using WA's trial bandwidth and snap! I couldn't get a Telfree circuit or a Switch Telecom circuit (that have been configured on Atcom phones and that are due to go out to clients in the morning) to work.

Remember their Trial accounts do not go through SAIX, so I don't think it's a viable option to test it with that account. The trial accounts are for their own Tier-1 network (like IS). What I'd do though is just make them aware of the situation so that they can plan for SIP/Asterisk Box connections and they might be a viable option.

AFAIK Datapro doesn't use SAIX accounts, but I'm not entirely sure as I haven't used Datapro since 2005.

What does a Telfree/SIP circuit do in terms of cost savings? Interested to know

 

[D3x]

I find their support levels to be the BEST in the industry, as far as commerical ISP support

So I have heard from NUMEROUS people I know who use the WA service.

Mistakes can happen though but the LIGHT YEARS ahead of iBurst's "service" level.

 

[portcullis]

What does a Telfree/SIP circuit do in terms of cost savings? Interested to know

From what I've seen, the only saving is on international calls.

Most of the circuits we sell end up being linked to circuits on the same operator elsewhere so that the clients can use the free calling functionality. For example dad's got a Telfree phone here and son in Australia's got a Telfree phone. They can get toll quality calls between each other for free and son can have a SA number in his house so his mates can call him for the cost of a local call.

 

[killadoob]

Skype is also free hey

 

[portcullis]

Skype is also free hey

We don't like Skype.

 

[guest2013-1]

We don't like Skype.

lol, why not? Skype also have Skype-In supported in South Africa nowadays which I think is awesome. But yea, each to his own. I think we used more or less the same setup in Dubai to connect to the London offices, but it was separate phones etc

 

[portcullis]

lol, why not?

When I joined, the Skype Privacy Policy stated that my computer may be used by Skype:

disk space, bandwidth and processing power may be utilized to provide the Skype Services

It further described how my computer may act as a hub (essentially a server) for use by others:

From time-to-time your computer may become a Supernode… This may include the ability for your computer to help anonymously and securely facilitate communications between other users of the Skype Software…

And Skype of course reassures us that:

The system has been designed so that being a Supernode will not interfere with the normal operations of your computer.

Whew. That’s a relief.

Oddly, the Skype End User License Agreement (EULA) is far less clear on the point:

4.1 Permission to utilize Your computer. In order to receive the benefits provided by the Skype Software, you hereby grant permission for the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of Your computer for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and other Skype Software users.

Here they tell us we are granting them permission to use our resources just for the purposes of facilitating the communication between me and other users. Now wait a minute. What’s up with this discrepency? Letting Skype use my computer to facilitate my own communications is one thing. But it is an entirely different matter to grant permission for Skype to use my private property to facilitate the communications of strangers, communications to which I am not a party.

Forgetting this discrepency (which itself seems somewhat dubious), the fact is with Skype as it is today, your computer can become a hub (Supernode) and carry the conversations of others, without your explicit knowledge or active consent. And all the protocols and algorithms are secret, not exposed to peer review or the kind of extensive public scrutiny required to affirm the security of the design.

I quote an associate:

There is a “social cost” to using Skype. You willingly help bad guys get their work done, in addition to all the good that gets done over Skype. Good defined as things you personally consider good or benign — all from your personal perspective.

If you are willing to pay this price of letting bad guys use your machine, then that’s up to you. No one can stop you. But users should be aware of these costs and offer or withhold their consent accordingly.

This is a personal decision. Contrast this with paying taxes that build roads that the bad guys use to flee their bankrobbery. I don’t have a personal choice in paying taxes, nor whether they are spent on building roads that lead to banks.

But I do have a choice with how my computer is used. It’s my personal, private property.

I wonder how many Skype users even know their computers and internet bandwidth can be used to carry traffiic for others. This includes SkypeOut calls that Skype is making money on.

 

[warichard]

Hi portcullis,

It's definitely concerning to us that you're struggling to use SIP over our ADSL.

As far as the conversation that's been had already,

1) On our SAIX/IS based accounts we only handle the authentication, the actual service levels (ie. what's shaped, unshaped and restricted) is dealt with by the provider themselves. This is the same with all ISP's reselling these services.

It is possible that SIP/VOIP access is restricted on the local only service, and only available on the shaped/unshaped packages. Does the Telfree manual explicitly state SAIX Local only ADSL or do they only refer to SAIX ADSL.

2) Of far greater concern to us however is the difficulty you're experiencing using SIP over our trial network. There should be absolutely no restriction in place on this kind of traffic and it should be working perfectly. Your indication that it's not means we need to get that fixed ASAP.

If you could perhaps PM me the setup you're attempting to perform, as well as IP's of the destination servers, ports trying to be used, etc. we can start debugging the problem and confirm whether the issue is really with our network or not, and if it is, get it working.

 

[portcullis]

warichard...pm sent.

 

[Dean]

warichard...pm sent.

You posted the problem at 7pm.

You got that response from WA support at 11am the following morning.

Something tells me that that response is the start of quite a process that (I'm assuming based on their past performace) will eventually result in the problem being sorted.

Wow, if only all companies service was as BRILLIANT as that.......

 

[cavedog]

Had a problem with my account. Called. It was sorted in less than 3min.

HOWEVER!! [email protected] is NON seems does not get a response at all. I sent 7 emails.

1 from webafrica's email
3 from cybersmarts email
2 from gmail
1 from vodamail all with the same message and no response for 3 days. Call support was super quick and helpful. Thanks

 

[portcullis]

You posted the problem at 7pm.

You got that response from WA support at 11am the following morning.

Something tells me that that response is the start of quite a process that (I'm assuming based on their past performace) will eventually result in the problem being sorted.

We gave up in the end. It's not financially prudent to pay support staff hundreds of Rands an hour to battle with an account that only cost R95 in the first place.

The client got an IS local only account and that works perfectly.