What do you download ?

[hj2k_x]

So if I rip a HiFi off the back of the truck and just use it myself it's not illegal? Interesting perspective.

For the record, I have no time for the greedy Movie and Music Studios. I just don't believe in ripping anyone off. It just justifies their antics and makes everything more expensive for the people who do pay for things.

Cheers

Abe

Absolutely no way!

If i download a movie, and watch it myself without dirstibuting it, and if i had no intention of buying the dvd or of going to watch it at the cinema, then no one at all is losing out. This is not theft. Think about it.

 

[Abe]

There is little or no chance that a US show will be cancelled because of foreign markets (your point 3). Shows are produced by American studios for American viewers.

That may be the case right now but more and more it is becoming a global marketplace. Even then, you just have to look at DSTV cancelling the show because of lost revenue.

Proof in point ABC is releasing shows on the internet within days of them being shown in the states.

Actually the fact that they're releasing their shows on the internet for free pretty much invalidates most of your arguments. They might be releasing them with US adverts but they wouldnt pertain to SA audiences anyway yet we're free to download them.

Not so. They are being streamed and are not for downloads. Only Alias is including the latest releases and all of the shows can only can be viewed by US audiences (IP blocking). The intention is that there will still be revenue from the adverts. Of the advertisers, Ford, Toyota, Unilever, Universal Pictures and Walt Disney Pictures are still valid in South Africa. This is an experiment.

There is no difference between downloading a show and taping it (or recording it with a pvr) to watch later yet that is allowed.

The point is that the money to pay for the shows has to come from somewhere. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Yes people will tape shows but the majority of television is watched live. Eventually broadcasts will be replaced by broadband (As ABC is testing) but there will still be ads.

If the big studios (ABC included) did not have a problem with downloads then they would not be fighting it as much as they are. They are fighting it because they believe (maybe incorrectly) that they are loosing money because of it.

Cheers

Abe

 

[Abe]

Absolutely no way!

If i download a movie, and watch it myself without dirstibuting it, and if i had no intention of buying the dvd or of going to watch it at the cinema, then no one at all is losing out. This is not theft. Think about it.

It is most definitely illegal. What would you do with your time if you were not watching the movie? So you don't watch anything except what you download? Who must pay the salaries of the actors and the costs of making the movies?

What about in 10 years? Would you watch it on TV then if you had not watched it now?

Also, for the record, by using P2P, you would be distributing it. This is not the case with tne newsgroups.

Cheers

Abe

 

[hj2k_x]

It is most definitely illegal. What would you do with your time if you were not watching the movie? So you don't watch anything except what you download? Who must pay the salaries of the actors and the costs of making the movies?

What about in 10 years? Would you watch it on TV then if you had not watched it now?

Also, for the record, by using P2P, you would be distributing it. This is not the case with tne newsgroups.

Cheers

Abe

I said nothing about p2p. I said downloads.

And either way, downloading stuff for personal consumption, at least when it comes to mp3s(not 100% sure about movies) is NOT ILLEGAL. I dont know how many times i can say this. It is the distribution that is illegal!

 

[Abe]

And either way, downloading stuff for personal consumption, at least when it comes to mp3s(not 100% sure about movies) is NOT ILLEGAL. I dont know how many times i can say this. It is the distribution that is illegal!

http://www.risa.org.za/piracy.php?content=definitions

"The sale of unauthorised copies of copyright works in the MP3 format is without doubt a criminal offence. Do not believe anyone who claims it is a grey area. Just because you own the CD doesn’t mean you “own” the music. You can’t put music on the internet without permission of the copyright owners of the copyright in the sound recording and in the musical composition. It is a breach if you upload or download sound recordings without permission of the copyright owners. You should assume other people’s works are protected by copyright and can’t be copied or played over the internet."

Not the way I understand it.

Cheers

Abe

 

[Abe]

http://www.risa.org.za/piracy.php?content=definitions

It is even illegal to make a backup of a CD you own if I understand the South African law. As stupid as this is.

Cheers

Abe

 

[hj2k_x]

Ok man, you have done your research, i'll give u that much!

This was being discussed just a few days ago on this forum and what came out of what was not the same as what u have quoted above...

I have to go out now, but i'll get back to you on this!

Cheers

H

 

[killadoob]

who cares download what you like it dont really matter

the rich are still getting richer

so an artist lost out on making 50m and instead 35m o well shame

 

[Nom Chompsky]

who cares download what you like it dont really matter

the rich are still getting richer

so an artist lost out on making 50m and instead 35m o well shame

So you'd steal a car because the CEO's of the companies make so much money?

 

[killadoob]

ummm well i doubt ceo's of car companies make millions and can buy anything the world has to offer so no

but i would pirate expensive cd dvd's etc because they rip us off and sit in their 30 bedroom house with 17 cars

does that answer your question?

so dont put a CEO and multi millionaires in the same question hehehehehehehe

 

[Abe]

but i would pirate expensive cd dvd's etc because they rip us off and sit in their 30 bedroom house with 17 cars

The guys who invented the Tetra Pack are multi million if not billionaires. Does that mean you steal your milk? For every artist/actor who has their millions, there are another 500000 who are struggling to make ends meet. There are a few who make $20 million per movie. The majority get a measly salary for their bit parts. I am sure you don't only have Usher songs or just the scenes with Tom Cruise in your collection.

Enough of this discussion for me. I hate the big studios and don't like to feel that I am supporting them in a discussion of this nature.

Cheers

Abe

 

[Peter_J]

http://www.risa.org.za/piracy.php?content=definitions

"The sale of unauthorised copies of copyright works in the MP3 format is without doubt a criminal offence. Do not believe anyone who claims it is a grey area. Just because you own the CD doesn’t mean you “own” the music. You can’t put music on the internet without permission of the copyright owners of the copyright in the sound recording and in the musical composition. It is a breach if you upload or download sound recordings without permission of the copyright owners. You should assume other people’s works are protected by copyright and can’t be copied or played over the internet."

Not the way I understand it.

Do we have to go through this again?

The bit about downloading is a pile of cr@p. I have mailed them objecting to it, with, of course, no reply.

See my posts:

http://www.myadsl.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=502334&postcount=19
http://www.myadsl.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=484542&postcount=34

PS I will consult my oracle when I can about movies as the law IS slightly different.

 

[hj2k_x]

Do we have to go through this again?

The bit about downloading is a pile of cr@p. I have mailed them objecting to it, with, of course, no reply.

See my posts:

http://www.myadsl.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=502334&postcount=19
http://www.myadsl.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=484542&postcount=34

PS I will consult my oracle when I can about movies as the law IS slightly different.

That is what i am going with. This is the way i understand the law currently.

Even if the law weren't on my side, it would not make a difference to how iu feel about downloading movies, series, music, anything really.

Bring down the price of CDs and DVDs. Start putting 20 tracks that we acually want to listen to on the CD. Don't charge me R200 for a DVD that cost a few cents to make, if that.
Then come talk to me again about 'piracy'.

 

[Abe]

PS I will consult my oracle when I can about movies as the law IS slightly different.

Where can I get an oracle

You also have to look at the ECT Act as it may also be relevent.

"86. Unauthorised access to, interception of or interference with data

1) Subject to the Interception and Monitoring Prohibition Act, 1992 (Act No. 127 of 1992), a person who intentionally accesses or intercepts any data without authority or permission to do so, is guilty of an offence."

Data is defined as "means electronic representations of information in any form;".

The problem with Acts is that they are open to interpretation. A song could be classed as information. Courts try to look at what the intention of the Act is when deciding this sort of thing.

Legal implications aside (I would hate to be a test case). There is the moral question which people need to ask themselves. Who is going to start writing songs if they cannot get paid anything for their effort. I write software for a living and hate it when people just copy software as and when they feel like it.

Cheers

Abe

 

[hj2k_x]

Wow man, u still here??

I can see why u are so upset with this as i am sure u are sick of sitting for month on a piece of software only for someone to rip it off...

I have had this same debate with a good friend of mine who is in a local band which is trying to push itself into the limelight ATM. Now even he agrees, that he will buy south african CDs to support local, but as far as anything else is concerned, he'll download the ass out of it!

Who is going to start writing songs if they cannot get paid anything for their effort. I write software for a living and hate it when people just copy software as and when they feel like it.

Why would they not get paid anything?! Bring down the prices of CDs, then people will actually BUY them again. And stop churning out CDs with 3 good songs on and a load load of bullsh1t tracks!

If this remains the case, then i would not want them to still receive the ridiculous amounts that they do!

 

[Abe]

Wow man, u still here??

In and out. Busy working outside and thought I would have a look what was happening

Why would they not get paid anything?! Bring down the prices of CDs, then people will actually BUY them again. And stop churning out CDs with 3 good songs on and a load load of bullsh1t tracks!

I actually think the solution is to cut out the studios. They are the only ones getting rich all of the time. Up and coming artists get next to nothing for their first album and only get a good deal if it does really well. The solution is for artists to start selling their songs directly and cut out the fat cats.

Look at:

http://www.harveydanger.com/

They have the right idea.

Cheers

Abe

 

[hj2k_x]

Got no international so i cant check the link till next month

But i am with u in principle. Cut out the fat cats. Bring down prices. Allow artists more say in what material they produce...

 

[Highflyer_GP]

@Abe: I download tv shows, and if I like it I buy the box set which comes with bonus features. Maybe you are willing to sit through 20 minutes of adverts per episode but I am not. Don't try and play the moral high ground because I'm not profiting. Also I see nothing worng with partially sharing a torent because you did not distribute the entire thing, rendering the parts that you do share useless. It's like breaking a DVD into 4 pieces and selling a quarter DVD at a time. It's useless and wouldn't work on any DVD player. Read what was posted by Peter_J. We are under South African law, meaning it is only illegal if you distribute what you download. If you feel so strongly about defending American law then by all means go and live there.

 

[Abe]

Got no international so i cant check the link till next month

From their web site:

"We are offering the entirety of our third album, Little by Little..., as a free download (if you're curious why we're doing this, you can read our reasons here).

...

If you like what you hear and you want to support us, consider buying the physical version of the album (which includes a bonus disc), or making a small contribution."

Cheers

Abe

 

[hj2k_x]

From their web site:

"We are offering the entirety of our third album, Little by Little..., as a free download (if you're curious why we're doing this, you can read our reasons here).

...

If you like what you hear and you want to support us, consider buying the physical version of the album (which includes a bonus disc), or making a small contribution."

Cheers

Abe

Now that really IS a refreshing change!

If only there was more of this!