Pay peanuts.. get monkeys. Don't whine so much when people go on strike and bring the country to a standstill every yr or two due to salaries being too low. In the end I am a firm believer in paying people decently and expecting them to pull their weight or lose their job to someone who will, not the current pay as little as possible and still expect everything and whine when a few take advantage
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What should a minimum wage be?
- Thread starter pobox4701
- Start date
VioAdmin
Expert Member
Minimum wage should be R6500/month at the very least.
The living expenses in SA are getting more and more expensive and South Africa with a GDP over well over 500+ Billion US Dollars[more than places like Ireland and Denmark], there is for sure some money around here to spread.
I don't know how anyone can survive on R1,000/month, not even R3,000 is enough since everyone has like 2 kids+ and there grandmas to watch after.
Raise the minimum wage, I am sure a lot of people who do illegal activities on the side, like taking bribes or simply stealing would stop.
The living expenses in SA are getting more and more expensive and South Africa with a GDP over well over 500+ Billion US Dollars[more than places like Ireland and Denmark], there is for sure some money around here to spread.
I don't know how anyone can survive on R1,000/month, not even R3,000 is enough since everyone has like 2 kids+ and there grandmas to watch after.
Raise the minimum wage, I am sure a lot of people who do illegal activities on the side, like taking bribes or simply stealing would stop.
Kornhub
Blackburn Fan
I remeber I was suppose to get R16 an hour and when it was pay day at the end of the month they tuned me no you were training
Vio, if the government said you had to pay at least R1 million for a 2001 Citi Golf, would you still consider buying it? Do you think that there wouldn't be unscrupulous types who'd try and flog the car for less? Do you think criminals would suddenly abandon their trade to become wealthy selling Citi Golfs?
Messugga
Honorary Master
You understand why this isn't possible and would be very bad to implement, right?
I remeber I was suppose to get R16 an hour and when it was pay day at the end of the month they tuned me no you were training
Did you sign a contract?
In an awesome world sure, unfortunately that amount is simply unrealistic i think
Yeah, there is cash, its all sitting in the pockets of those who are supposed to be protecting and fighting for the impoverished.
You survive on what you have. I know people who are earning over 500k who have garnishee orders and cannot make it to the end of the month. These are not morons either...
As for the everyone having kids etc, simple. Dont have kids. I cannot tell you how annoyed it makes me that poor people have so many kids. Or ven kids. They then struggle, cannot afford to give those kids a decent education. Those kids cant get better jobs than those with education and the cycle repeats. Have less kids, look after the kids you have better.
I am sure they wont. Illegal activites are not just there because people cant find jobs, they are there because often it is easier money than working all day.
The difference is the law protects the strikers, it isn't neutral.
So techncially, in a neutral scenario, people work under terms agreed by each party and if you leave or break contract, you risk being fired.
I doubt he/she does.
Cool. So I will fire my cleaning lady because I can not afford her. Also the tea lady and cleaning lady at work will be fired.
Nice going mate you just increased the jobless % in SA to 70%.
Ever think that ireland has less than 7 million people? And denmark is at around 5.5 million?
let me explain it to you this way. What would you rather have:
A 10 ton pie that you have to share with 10 million people
OR
A 10 kilogram pie that you have to share with 10 other people?
Stop having 10 kids if you can not look after them. And R1000 / month is better than R00.00 / month.
I would also love it if the police and teacher etc etc were paid more BUT where do you propose we get the funds from?
VioAdmin
Expert Member
Hmm good points. Ya, I mean I know the criminals wouldn't suddenly stop, I was thinking perhaps the crime level would reduce somewhat.
So what exactly do you do about the minimum wage because it seems like every 3-4 months some unions are striking for wage increase. Surely we can't leave it as it is?
Kornhub
Blackburn Fan
Nah,just turned 16 at the time so didn't know better
VioAdmin
Expert Member
Couldn't agree more now that you put it that way.
There should be no minimum wage; and no special privileges for unions. The unions support regulation like the minimum wage beause it creates artificial scarcity which raises the price floor for their members. The unions strike often because they represent the top 20% of income earners (those making R9000 per month or more) and SA's inflationary monetary policy corrodes this quite quickly. If they were wise about economics they'd be striking against the government's monetary policy, not their employers.
VioAdmin
Expert Member
Hmm ok, I am sure not all unions represent the top incomers, I believe it wasn't too long ago where we had all those people in Pretoria wanting an increase of like 5%, to make their monthly income at around R2,000(I can't remember, but I know it was for sure less than R9K/month).
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ployers-raise-pay-offer-strike-continues.html -- There is an example of a union strike of people making way less than R9K.
Without minimum wage what exactly would stop these large corporations who's CEO's are as corrupt as they come, to not rip people off? I mean, if for example right now they are paying everyone R50/hour -- Who is going to argue against them if there is NO union and NO minimum wage if they drop the pay to R30/hour.
While at the same time increasing pay for the CEO's and top management increases each year a long with bonuses:
"A study by accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers found the median salaries of executive directors of the 40 biggest companies on the Johannesburg exchange rose 23 percent to 4.8 million rand ($709,000) last year, while their short-term bonuses surged 58 percent to 3.8 million rand."
Remember, those in power are more likely to scam/cheat/steal from the ones below them because that is exactly what power gives you. Power.
So I am just wondering who would look after the "bottom level" employees?
Employees could strike, but under the ideal conditions of no special privileges for unions they'd risk being fired. Here's the thing: CEOs are accountable to shareholders. You think it would be a good idea for a company to suddenly reduce employees' pay? What effect do you think that would have on productivity and customer service?
Having a minimum wage just creates a barrier to people whose labour produces less than the minimum wage. The way to get wages rising in general terms is to have a very competitive labour market, but you cannot have that if the bulk of people are unemployed to begin with. People need to start working and earning anything, anything they're willing to accept. Nothing can happen overnight and "protecting" the wages of those presently employed at the expense of the unemployed is a very cruel bargain.
VioAdmin
Expert Member
Hmm I see, food for thought.
I guess what I meant or rather what I should have said is, these companies keep the same salary for some of the employees lets say at R2000/month for 2 years, but at the same time rent is increased nation wide, food more expensive etc.
*So I think the problem is not reduced pay[like a mentioned] for employees but NO increased pay for employees even though everything around them in the real world is costing more, from bread to a McDonald happy meal(you get the point) and at the same time, the top management is getting hella bonuses and pay increase of over 25% a year, that is insane to me.
So I guess as you said, as long as employees are able to strike without the fear of getting fired this would be a good start.
I think the minimum wage should be different depending on which SECTOR you are in, for example, a domestic worker shouldn't get be paid R5000 month unless she is doing work that is worth that much but a general average should be placed, anyone agree?
Would be the same for those who work at fast food places like McDonalds, an average/base salary for burger flippers should be thought in that is fair.
I think people need guidelines or someone is going to get cheated on, I think this is the whole reason why everywhere else in the world we have Minimum Wage/Unions etc. People are too greedy plain and simple.
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
If we have minimum wage, shouldn't we also have maximum wage? CEO's and directors earning more than R5 million a year is just plain stupid.
Yes, and as I've pointed out, the reason for such a continuous rise in the general level of prices is SA's inflationary monetary policy.
Who are you, or anyone else, to decide what price consenting parties agree to? If I agree to mow your lawn for a glass of lemonade would you wish for the government to intervene? How about if I offered to trade you my skills as a surgeon for a slice of orange? The price of labour, like all prices, is relative and subjective.
As in my previous allegory, if I agree to mow your lawn in exchange for a glass of lemonade who's getting cheating? We both agree to the transaction so are we "exploiting" each other? Or did we both reach mutual agreement based upon our own subjective valuations and desires?
Why? If he is making 10 times that for the company or he is worth that much $$$ why not pay him/her x Million ZAR / year?
Messugga
Honorary Master
I don't think you understand the situation or the other posters' comments completely. Forget for a minute about minimum wage and all that. Let's look at how a company works: You have a board of directors and share holders. The board works effectively, for the share holders. If the board decides to enrich themselves, the share holders start losing out and have the choice of getting rid of the parties responsible.
When will the share holders start losing out? When the company starts performing poorly due to, for example, over worked or unhappy staff with low levels of productivity. The board can continue paying themselves massive bonuses while their staff are unhappy, but eventually they're going to get kicked out, or the board can give the employees raises or hire more staff and let the company continue to perform. It's not like the guys at the top aren't held responsible for their actions.
Now, to get back to minimum wages. A basic rule of economics is supply and demand, right? Now, at the moment, two guys both have R10, for example, and they want to buy a bread each. The problem is, there is only one bread. Both of them really want it and whoever's selling the bread knows there's a big demand for it. The seller charges R10 for the bread because he knows he's going to get it and sells it to one of the two guys.
Right, so now minimum wages get hiked up and these two guys now earn R20. They both want to buy a bread. The seller now knows he'll sell it, but since more money's available, he can charge more and he jacks up the price to R20. Did either of these employees gain anything by their salaries doubling? No. If everyone's salaries get pushed up, everything will just get more expensive since that's what retailers can get away with, not to mention the added cost of producing goods due to employees earning more, etc. The increases end up being artificial and inflation goes up.
You cannot artificially alter the supply/demand (In this case skills) relationship with regulations and whatnot and have it be sustainable. In the end, you're just bluffing yourself. Increases only work when a select portion get them, if everyone gets them you haven't achieved anything other than getting more zeros on your paycheque.