Where are all the skilled developers?

A "good dev" is someone that gets sh.. stuff done. The guy that delivers that solution on time and did it such a way that phase 2 won't require a rewrite.

A "good developer" is somebody that knows how to develop software regardless of tech.


Anyway, the "good de elopers" are with the companies that pay them well, allow them to wear jeans and tekkies and give them flexi time. Basically, we are not working at the small WP web dev companies.
 
A "good dev" is someone that gets sh.. stuff done. The guy that delivers that solution on time and did it such a way that phase 2 won't require a rewrite.

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And if the boss man makes impossible deadline ? :p . Happens hey.
Agree on the most.
 
I think its a combination of things.

Although companies dont do themselves any favours with their hiring practices, there is definitely a shortage of skilled candidates, and a glut of candidates who claim to know everything but in reality cant write for loops. Some of the "senior" candidates you get are just embarrassingly bad. I mean, you cant blame everything on companies and their stupid tests - sometimes the candidates just suck, and even a fair test would show that.

However, I do think companies fail in two ways - they are too reluctant to hire "junior" staff, and their interviews and tests are normally shocking.

With regards to hiring junior staff, they leave because they realize the company is not interested in their career growth and only interested in extracting value from them. Fair enough, its business, but then dont cry when your employee quits because you stuck him in a dead end role. And then decide to not hire juniors, and cry about the lack of skilled staff - what you are basically saying is that you dont want to hire juniors, but somebody else must.

With regards to interviews, most of the technical tests are just stupid and useless. Developers think that good tests are those that find out if you know some obscure feature of a language. That doesnt make you a good programmer in my book. Oh, you didnt know some obscure thing about that third party library we use here, guess we cant hire you. Its just testing your ability to memorize and not your ability to reason.

Unfortunately I think the best way to evaluate whether a candidate is any good is also the most time consuming and difficult - sit down with them and talk to them.
 
Interesting posts thus far. As far as younger guys go, there seems to be a lack of decent developers around. Is that what companies are struggling to find? Because the older guys are available, but I'm not sure if companies are willing to fork out the money.
 
All the good devs I have encountered seem to be more balanced on a social level. Someone who is approachable, articulate with good interpersonal skills and is able to produce good work by operating well in a self organising team. Perhaps it's these sort of characteristics that are lacking?
 
All the good devs I have encountered seem to be more balanced on a social level. Someone who is approachable, articulate with good interpersonal skills and is able to produce good work by operating well in a self organising team. Perhaps it's these sort of characteristics that are lacking?

You forgot "handsome". :p

It depends on the developer role. Some very good developers should never be let loose on clients. And many don't want to deal with clients.
 
With regards to interviews, most of the technical tests are just stupid and useless. Developers think that good tests are those that find out if you know some obscure feature of a language. That doesnt make you a good programmer in my book. Oh, you didnt know some obscure thing about that third party library we use here, guess we cant hire you. Its just testing your ability to memorize and not your ability to reason.

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Agree. 100%...
 
Haha, recruiters are my pet peeve... Mostly they just serve to piss me off by sending me "IT Technician" types specs because my cv and their spec have one word in common. Usually accompanied by a whole lot of paperwork which involves duplicating your cv and a skill matrix into their specific format.

Good developers don't need to deal with recruiters :)
 
The people I have spoken to just want a bunch of good developers, no salary cap or specific titles were mentioned - so no I don't think it always comes down to salary.

If someone is a good developer and happy where they are and with what they are earning (i.e., usually they believe it to be industry average or above - people can't be happy unless they earn above the average, you know. :p ), they really won't be motivated to look elsewhere. From what I've seen, a lot of jobs in SA don't advertise their range, and from my own experience working in SA, companies can be very cagey with what they are willing to pay, so there is very little to convince people that the grass is greener elsewhere, so they stay put. In the US and UK, things tend to be a little more open - I think that it is primarily because the companies are bigger, so it's harder to keep compensation under wraps, especially in light of websites like glassdoor.com and public H1B databases.

Perhaps the people who you are referring to should consider advertising their position and posting the upper limit of what they are able to pay. Sure, they will get a bunch of opportunists hoping to get lucky, but if their upper limit is well above average, and they filter well, they are far more likely to get a higher count of good candidates applying. Some good candidates will have the "I want the upper range value" syndrome, but these can be assessed on a case by case basis (usually facotring in how good the candidate interviewed, and what they earned previously, to see if such a demand is reasonable).

Personally, whenever a head hunter contacts me, I ask for the range, and if they're cagey, want to meet, expect me to interview first, or fill stuff out, or send in a CV for internal show and tell, or whatever, I just pass - it's not that it's all about salary for me, but I'm sure as hell not going to waste time in a tug of war only to figure out tha the upper limit for the position is an untenably small fraction of what I currently earn, however awesome the environment may sound. Similarly, I would also never apply for a job unless the range was specified and significantly above what I currently earn - there is simply no motivation to waste my time on this unless I actually want to move companies.
 
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Personally, whenever a head hunter contacts me, I ask for the range, and if they're cagey, want to meet, expect me to interview first, or fill stuff out, or send in a CV for internal show and tell, or whatever, I just pass - it's not that it's all about salary for me, but I'm sure as hell not going to waste time in a tug of war only to figure out tha the upper limit for the position is an untenably small fraction of what I currently earn, however awesome the environment may sound. Similarly, I would also never apply for a job unless the range was specified and significantly above what I currently earn - there is simply no motivation to waste my time on this unless I actually want to move companies.

This.
 
I for one am not complaining about lack of good developers as it has allowed me to go from someone that coded as a hobby to a paid professional in 7 years.
 
I for one am not complaining about lack of good developers as it has allowed me to go from someone that coded as a hobby to a paid professional in 7 years.

Indeed. The more of them ship out overseas the more work and higher pay there is for me :twisted:
 
Interesting topic. :)

Is the shortage due to companies asking too much out of a developer or is it due to developers asking too much out of a company (Salary, packages etc) ?

By the sounds of it -the former applies.

I haven't been to any developer interviews, (Besides one) - so, I am not sure of what the questions asked would be and how these interviews would go.

Also, when looking at developer job offers - a lot of companies are very vague in what they want out of a candidate and very cagy when it comes to listing the range in salary they're offering - maybe this is part of the reason why some devs don't apply and the "shortage of devs" idea sets in?
 
Interesting topic. :)

Is the shortage due to companies asking too much out of a developer or is it due to developers asking too much out of a company (Salary, packages etc) ?

By the sounds of it -the former applies.

I haven't been to any developer interviews, (Besides one) - so, I am not sure of what the questions asked would be and how these interviews would go.

Also, when looking at developer job offers - a lot of companies are very vague in what they want out of a candidate and very cagy when it comes to listing the range in salary they're offering - maybe this is part of the reason why some devs don't apply and the "shortage of devs" idea sets in?

No, there definitely is a shortage. Even counting bad job adverts (plenty), incompetent recruitment agents (even more) and bad interviews (quite a few), there is a lack of skilled staff. There just is, for whatever reason.
 
Oh, wow. That bad?

Would our education system to be to blame for this?
 
No, there definitely is a shortage. Even counting bad job adverts (plenty), incompetent recruitment agents (even more) and bad interviews (quite a few), there is a lack of skilled staff. There just is, for whatever reason.

Yip our company is struggling to find someone. I really wish they would because I'm far too busy... I'm the newest person in the team and I've been here 2.5 years.
 
I personally think that in the last 15 years IT in general has gone more main stream as a career choice. I kid you not, 70% of IT professionals (both technical and software engineering) should have done something else. Hence the over flooding of useless people and shortage of skilled developers.
 
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