Which 9AH battery brands aren't kak?

CataclysmZA

CataclysmZA

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So we have two 4KVA UPS units in our house. Both are pretty much the same unit in different chassis, slightly customised firmware, yadda yadda. Basically, a Mecer Winner Pro from about 5 years ago without chrome on the outside.

We got these second-hand and replaced all the batteries in the one, but we ended up picking some lead acid 7AH units from a local shop here in town. Due to load shedding being such great business, a lot of people stock the same shitty brands, and many more people have stock of batteries that were already a year old.

I'd like to switch these units to run on 9AH batteries (what they originally shipped with) that are also deep cycle. 9AH batteries are aplenty online, but which brands do I shortlist? I can maybe find some specifications for a handful of these batteries to figure out runtimes and such, but with deep cycle batteries going down to at least 50% DoD I'd like to have the extended running time so that the PS4 Pro doesn't shut off midway through a load shedding period.

If not deep cycle, then at least a decent lead acid. The UPS units I have are dumb as far as features are concerned.

I have links below to some units which appear decent, but I'd like input from MyBBers who may have done more research, or have experience with these batteries slapped into a UPS first-hand. Also, the physical dimensions appear to be basically the same height-wise, unless I'm reading the specs wrong.

Fiamm-12FGH36

Vision CP1290AC

Nemtek 12V - 12Ah Deep Cycle Battery

Victron Energy 12V/8Ah
 
CataclysmZA said:
So we have two 4KVA UPS units in our house. Both are pretty much the same unit in different chassis, slightly customised firmware, yadda yadda. Basically, a Mecer Winner Pro from about 5 years ago without chrome on the outside.

We got these second-hand and replaced all the batteries in the one, but we ended up picking some lead acid 7AH units from a local shop here in town. Due to load shedding being such great business, a lot of people stock the same shitty brands, and many more people have stock of batteries that were already a year old.

I'd like to switch these units to run on 9AH batteries (what they originally shipped with) that are also deep cycle. 9AH batteries are aplenty online, but which brands do I shortlist? I can maybe find some specifications for a handful of these batteries to figure out runtimes and such, but with deep cycle batteries going down to at least 50% DoD I'd like to have the extended running time so that the PS4 Pro doesn't shut off midway through a load shedding period.

If not deep cycle, then at least a decent lead acid. The UPS units I have are dumb as far as features are concerned.

I have links below to some units which appear decent, but I'd like input from MyBBers who may have done more research, or have experience with these batteries slapped into a UPS first-hand. Also, the physical dimensions appear to be basically the same height-wise, unless I'm reading the specs wrong.

Fiamm-12FGH36

Vision CP1290AC

Nemtek 12V - 12Ah Deep Cycle Battery

Victron Energy 12V/8Ah
Click to expand...

Lots of Fiam batteries at work for backup system, that should count for something I guess.
 
CataclysmZA said:
So we have two 4KVA UPS units in our house. Both are pretty much the same unit in different chassis, slightly customised firmware, yadda yadda. Basically, a Mecer Winner Pro from about 5 years ago without chrome on the outside.

We got these second-hand and replaced all the batteries in the one, but we ended up picking some lead acid 7AH units from a local shop here in town. Due to load shedding being such great business, a lot of people stock the same shitty brands, and many more people have stock of batteries that were already a year old.

I'd like to switch these units to run on 9AH batteries (what they originally shipped with) that are also deep cycle. 9AH batteries are aplenty online, but which brands do I shortlist? I can maybe find some specifications for a handful of these batteries to figure out runtimes and such, but with deep cycle batteries going down to at least 50% DoD I'd like to have the extended running time so that the PS4 Pro doesn't shut off midway through a load shedding period.

If not deep cycle, then at least a decent lead acid. The UPS units I have are dumb as far as features are concerned.

I have links below to some units which appear decent, but I'd like input from MyBBers who may have done more research, or have experience with these batteries slapped into a UPS first-hand. Also, the physical dimensions appear to be basically the same height-wise, unless I'm reading the specs wrong.

Fiamm-12FGH36

Vision CP1290AC

Nemtek 12V - 12Ah Deep Cycle Battery

Victron Energy 12V/8Ah
Click to expand...

Note on the Victron, looks like it has different connectors, might even thus not be same size as the others.
 
2 things:
Firstly UPS's are not designed to supply power over extended periods. They are designed to protect the equipment from black outs (online) and brown outs (line interactive) and to give sufficient time to shut down equipment or supply alternative power (i.e. wait for generator to kick in). This is one of the most common mistakes people make. UPS's are not designed for extended (+10 minutes) running times. If you are wanting more that 10 minutes of backup, then you need a proper inverter.

Secondly, and this applies to any battery system:
CataclysmZA said:
but with deep cycle batteries going down to at least 50% DoD
Click to expand...
Every time you run you batteries below 50% DoD you are killing them.

Not actual figures but fairly accurate:
75% remaining = 3000 cycles
50% remaining = 500 cycles
25% remaining = 20 cycles

As you can see the number of cycles decreases exponentially the deeper you discharge them. But between 75% and 50% you need to calculate the cost per cycle to determine if you are going to discharge to just 75% or 50%. This also applies to the type of battery. Lithium batteries are expensive but their cost per cycle is lower than LA batteries.
 
An example of cost per cycle and per minute.

A Blue Nova Lithium battery costs about R1300 for a 12V11Ah and gives you 2000 cycles even if you discharge it completely. R0.06 per Ah per cycle.

A 12v9Ah deep cycle battery costs about R250. It will give you 500 cycles if you only discharge it to 50%. R0.06 per Ah per cycle.

But it doesn't stop there. Say you had a load of 300Watts and you have a pure sine wave inverter with a PF of 90%.

The 12v9Ah battery would give you nearly 10 minutes per 500 cycles for R250
250 / (12 x 9 / 300 / 2 x 0.9 x 60 x 500) = R3.09/hour

The 12V11Ah will give you nearly 24 minutes per 2000 cycles for R1300
1300 / (12 x 11 / 300 x 0.9 x 60 x 2000) = R1.64/hour

Amended to 2000 cycles. Sorry.
 
Last edited:
Dairyfarmer said:
An example of cost per cycle and per minute.

A Blue Nova Lithium battery costs about R1300 for a 12V11Ah and gives you 3600 cycles even if you discharge it completely. R0.03 per Ah percycle.

A 12v9Ah deep cycle battery costs about R250. It will give you 500 cycles if you only discharge it to 50%. R0.05 per Ah per cycle.

But it doesn't stop there. Say you had a load of 300Watts and you have a pure sine wave inverter with a PF of 90%.

The 12v9Ah battery would give you nearly 10 minutes per 500 cycles for R250
250 / (12 x 9 / 300 / 2 x 0.9 x 60 x 500) = R3.09/hour

The 12V11Ah will give you nearly 24 minutes per 3600 cycles for R1300
1300 / (12 x 11 / 300 x 0.9 x 60 x 3600) = R0.91/hour
Click to expand...

Unless the Blue Nova Lithium battery has a built in BMS (didn't bother to google), then its not going to be compatible with his existing equipment, as charge / discharge levels will be wrong for the chemistry.

I stand by my suggestion of buy the cheapest one you can find, as in this space ( the low end crap space ) its all much of a muchness.
 
Would lead crystal batteries not work will for this, allow a deeper discharge without issue?

Why are lead crystal batteries in this size so hard to find?
 
Last edited:
Dairyfarmer said:
2 things:
Firstly UPS's are not designed to supply power over extended periods. They are designed to protect the equipment from black outs (online) and brown outs (line interactive) and to give sufficient time to shut down equipment or supply alternative power (i.e. wait for generator to kick in). This is one of the most common mistakes people make. UPS's are not designed for extended (+10 minutes) running times. If you are wanting more that 10 minutes of backup, then you need a proper inverter.

Secondly, and this applies to any battery system:

Every time you run you batteries below 50% DoD you are killing them.

Not actual figures but fairly accurate:
75% remaining = 3000 cycles
50% remaining = 500 cycles
25% remaining = 20 cycles

As you can see the number of cycles decreases exponentially the deeper you discharge them. But between 75% and 50% you need to calculate the cost per cycle to determine if you are going to discharge to just 75% or 50%. This also applies to the type of battery. Lithium batteries are expensive but their cost per cycle is lower than LA batteries.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware of how deep discharges affect battery life, and the whole reason why we're using these instead of an inverter is because they're on different ends of the house, so setting up an inverter to take care of the TVs on the one end, and the router and cameras on the other, is currently not feasible.

And we had them already, so we might as well get some use out of them. Actual running time seems to be around 3 hours with kak cheap batteries in the one UPS, so better units might allow us to not have to worry about switching things off if the load is low.

And IIRC a 1440W inverter with trolley and two lead acid 105Ah batteries is around R10k at the moment.
 
CataclysmZA said:
So we have two 4KVA UPS units in our house. Both are pretty much the same unit in different chassis, slightly customised firmware, yadda yadda. Basically, a Mecer Winner Pro from about 5 years ago without chrome on the outside.

We got these second-hand and replaced all the batteries in the one, but we ended up picking some lead acid 7AH units from a local shop here in town. Due to load shedding being such great business, a lot of people stock the same shitty brands, and many more people have stock of batteries that were already a year old.

I'd like to switch these units to run on 9AH batteries (what they originally shipped with) that are also deep cycle. 9AH batteries are aplenty online, but which brands do I shortlist? I can maybe find some specifications for a handful of these batteries to figure out runtimes and such, but with deep cycle batteries going down to at least 50% DoD I'd like to have the extended running time so that the PS4 Pro doesn't shut off midway through a load shedding period.

If not deep cycle, then at least a decent lead acid. The UPS units I have are dumb as far as features are concerned.

I have links below to some units which appear decent, but I'd like input from MyBBers who may have done more research, or have experience with these batteries slapped into a UPS first-hand. Also, the physical dimensions appear to be basically the same height-wise, unless I'm reading the specs wrong.

Fiamm-12FGH36

Vision CP1290AC

Nemtek 12V - 12Ah Deep Cycle Battery

Victron Energy 12V/8Ah
Click to expand...
deep cycle or nothing to be honest.
 
CataclysmZA said:
Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware of how deep discharges affect battery life, and the whole reason why we're using these instead of an inverter is because they're on different ends of the house, so setting up an inverter to take care of the TVs on the one end, and the router and cameras on the other, is currently not feasible.

And we had them already, so we might as well get some use out of them. Actual running time seems to be around 3 hours with kak cheap batteries in the one UPS, so better units might allow us to not have to worry about switching things off if the load is low.

And IIRC a 1440W inverter with trolley and two lead acid 105Ah batteries is around R10k at the moment.
Click to expand...
3 hours now @ 100% DOD, 30mins 3 months later if they're not deep cycle and not going more than 50% DOD. so it's actually only 1.5 hours you should be using out of them, and even then, if not deep cycle, batteries will still be dead after a short while. normal ups batteries don't have thick plates and don't like continuous discharge like car batteries. the thicker plates in deep cycle allow for this.
 
The Blue Nova Lithium batteries do not work in the Mecer and RCT 1000VA/2000VA UPS so possibly won't work in similar models. I bought 2x 11Ah 12V Blue Nova lithium batteries to replace the 7Ah lead acid ones in my Mecer. The BMS is not compatible and will not charge the batteries if they are depleted.

As soon as the batteries run down and the UPS switches off, the UPS will not charge the batteries when AC power switches back on until you have disconnected and reconnected the batteries. So they are useless for these UPS unfortunately. I returned them.
 
Personally I think the Blue Nova batteries are overpriced. Would go with CSB. Even when I ran my UPS hard, I only replaced them like once every 16 months. For the price I could buy more of them than a single Blue Nova for the given time period.

But Lithium is all the rage so buyers plenty they have
 
The lithium, apart from giving basically double the capacity for the same rating, will last closer to 10 years than your 16 months. It also charges much faster. It really is a superior technology in every way.
 
Speedster said:
The lithium, apart from giving basically double the capacity for the same rating, will last closer to 10 years than your 16 months. It also charges much faster. It really is a superior technology in every way.
Click to expand...
Don't buy it.
My MacBook Pro battery didn't even last 4 years without losing half its capacity and they use top of the line Lithium batteries.
Depends on the number of cycles, pure and simple.

My 16 months were based on a lot of deep cycles.
 
Gnome said:
Don't buy it.
My MacBook Pro battery didn't even last 4 years without losing half its capacity and they use top of the line Lithium batteries.
Depends on the number of cycles, pure and simple.

My 16 months were based on a lot of deep cycles.
Click to expand...
Uhm well okay. I don't even know how to begin a response to that.
 
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