Which programming language should be taught in South African high schools?

This thread.. :erm:

<Insert language I use the most with years of practice to suit a bunch of highschool kids a few times a week./>
 
Joker said:
This thread.. :erm:

<Insert language I use the most with years of practice to suit a bunch of highschool kids a few times a week./>
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I didn't recommend a language I have the most years with, so I stand with my suggestion :p
 
Primary schools should start with Logo and BASIC. Grade 7's could do the Python4kids course.
High schools should go to C/C++ and/or Java/Delphi and "scripting" languages like Python/PHP/Ruby/etc.

First emphases should be on problem solving. How do you go about planning a project, which should include the best language to use.
 
Anything but Pascal / Delphi. The language is so ****, it gets in the way...
 
Swa said:
You are the ones living in a bubble. The people with professional programming jobs is a microcosm of the programming community. There are millions of other competent programmers making cash off it. No wait, that isn't entirely true. There are millions of programmers with other jobs, even mundane jobs, with great developments and ideas.
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I think you've lost the plot somewhere... again. I never said there was no other developers making money off of it. Also what does this have to do with adapting a framework to a different platform? Perhaps respond coherently instead of rambling on about inconsequential stuff that is not related to the debate at hand. You claimed java failed at something, which you have not backed up with any facts, yet again its just your assumptions, without evidence, because everything else in the world points to its success. .NET have opened the code base to allow cross platform compatibility thus extending it into a market it has not tapped, thus exposing it to developers who are happy to stay with osx or linux but would like to try .NET. (Which by the way has been met with open arms and has caused a lot of excitement in the community, open source, independent and commercial).

Swa said:
You dragged "completeness" into this whatever that means in terms of programming languages.
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Apologies, I meant compete. You claimed how can it compete with the delphi code base. Care to back that up with some facts or evidence?

Swa said:
Exactly what I said.
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No its not, you said "that native language is preferred". Google decided from the onset that java(subset) would be the standard, people would be given the opportunity to use native if they so wished. But they had compilers and specific runtime jvms for it. i.e. Dalvik, which has now been superseded by ART (https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/). Again you're spewing rubbish with no evidence to back it up, not surprising.

Swa said:
That was supposed to be a joke. But while on the subject and you're confirming it, it's just more fuel to the fire of it never realising the dream of cross-platform under which it was promoted. So we have to take a step back here then and ask if it was never fulfilled but promoted under that then why continue with it?
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Refer to the above, it was not promoted, it was decided from the onset that java(subset) would be supported straight from the beginning. You should perhaps go learn history of android versions and its sdks before making asinine comments.


This is not PD where you can come and blab rubbish without backing it up with statistics or evidence. Your mediocre ramblings will prove nothing and hold no weight. People have posted stats which you ignored.
 
Rather than programming get them going with something proper:

Arch Linux.
 
semaphore said:
I think you've lost the plot somewhere... again. I never said there was no other developers making money off of it. Also what does this have to do with adapting a framework to a different platform? Perhaps respond coherently instead of rambling on about inconsequential stuff that is not related to the debate at hand. You claimed java failed at something, which you have not backed up with any facts, yet again its just your assumptions, without evidence, because everything else in the world points to its success. .NET have opened the code base to allow cross platform compatibility thus extending it into a market it has not tapped, thus exposing it to developers who are happy to stay with osx or linux but would like to try .NET. (Which by the way has been met with open arms and has caused a lot of excitement in the community, open source, independent and commercial).
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The plot was lost when emphasis was placed on developers. By developers the way it was emphasised I presume that to mean people doing programming commercially for a company. It is not the programming community in general. If that is your view as well I have nothing else to say to you but if it isn't you'll see the arguments have merit.

The point wrt to Java is backed up. The goal or the goal that was claimed to get it market share hasn't been achieved. We saw a good example of that with MXit which became outdated as they couldn't keep up with all the different versions. Web applets I'll agree it may have been achieved and only because of the limited allowed capabilities but nobody seems to want to use it there.

.NET isn't even a contender. Great if you're a programmer perhaps. Not if you're a user. A previous program I had to use required a specific subversion of .NET. I thought I was rid of that till I recently had to install a specific version again. Not only that but after I installed the standalone user profile version it still wouldn't run until I let it install the extended developer version.

semaphore said:
Apologies, I meant compete. You claimed how can it compete with the delphi code base. Care to back that up with some facts or evidence?
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Read the article I linked to. It isn't just my opinion but that of anyone who's ever really used it. Possible reasons for this could be it's high productivity and ease of use. I'll add the fact it was for a long time the language most people were exposed to first so most experimentation and first projects were in Delphi/Pascal. Without even trying to it made an open source platform before there was even an open source movement. Nothing more needs to be said wrt the code base.

If you want any other language to replace it as a better teaching language you're going to have to build up its code base. Not saying it can't be done but then you'll have to get the world to stick to one introductory language. With Delphi the choice was clear and it ended up so that if you had a problem someone most likely already had the answer and source code for it.

semaphore said:
No its not, you said "that native language is preferred". Google decided from the onset that java(subset) would be the standard, people would be given the opportunity to use native if they so wished. But they had compilers and specific runtime jvms for it. i.e. Dalvik, which has now been superseded by ART (https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/). Again you're spewing rubbish with no evidence to back it up, not surprising.
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Ok seems to be two issues here. You have a point that it's standard. My point is this was decided instead of being natural. Regardless the issue is still the same. Compatibility was never realised.

semaphore said:
Refer to the above, it was not promoted, it was decided from the onset that java(subset) would be supported straight from the beginning. You should perhaps go learn history of android versions and its sdks before making asinine comments.
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Promoted and decided is all the same. See what the dictionary has to say about them.
 
Swa said:
.NET isn't even a contender. Great if you're a programmer perhaps. Not if you're a user. A previous program I had to use required a specific subversion of .NET. I thought I was rid of that till I recently had to install a specific version again. Not only that but after I installed the standalone user profile version it still wouldn't run until I let it install the extended developer version.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a retard programmer not a problem with the Language.
 
Nod said:
Primary schools should start with Logo and BASIC. Grade 7's could do the Python4kids course.
High schools should go to C/C++ and/or Java/Delphi and "scripting" languages like Python/PHP/Ruby/etc.

First emphases should be on problem solving. How do you go about planning a project, which should include the best language to use.
Click to expand...

Have you met Scratch?

Logo is cool but I think the benefits of Scratch outweigh a Logo and BASIC combo - which is of course the staple for those old people who started fiddling with computers in the 80s
(waits for somebody to tell me to GOTO HELL)
 
Well, great to see this thread take off. If anyone is willing to go through and collect all the delphi arguments vs other languages and send it through, I'd be happy to send it to the Department of Education :P
 
MartinMorrison said:
Well, great to see this thread take off. If anyone is willing to go through and collect all the delphi arguments vs other languages and send it through, I'd be happy to send it to the Department of Education :P
Click to expand...

the argument is simple

Delphi = money to officials and supporting a cottage industry
Other ecosystem = each has merits and arguments to be had ...
 
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