Which would you pick?

[Pax]

Don't need to, you chose Merc as the benchmark for your quality comparison. They can't even beat a Kia.

View attachment 1873784

Now you can answer your own question - how many Havals have you owned?


V8 in a hatch, lol. It's a 1.8T.

Exactly my point. Anyone can bring in a random comparison. Doesn't make it a valid one unless you are comparing something that competes in the same segment...

Havals owned....fortunately none so far and I have no opinion other than what I read about them which convinced me so far not to put my head in that beehive.....and Merc is just one of the cars that forms my base of reference. Include therein BM, Volvo, and many other brands making up the 34 cars I've actually owned so far since I started buying my own cars.

A US 'study' v actual ownership. Different experiences, I can assure you.

A 1.8T returning 12 l/100km. Find the fuel leak!.....unless it is tuned to deliver 350kw/700nm....then one could accept that the fuel is converted to power and not just wasted.

3 x 1500cc compact cars compared surely is 'random' . You realise it is just past morning.....beers, brandy....or what led to that 'insightful' brain fart?

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

VW quality isn't great either, leaving BMW??

Well its problems per 100 vehicles and the best is 169 problems per 100 vehicles. That means problems are expected on any vehicle.
Also most of the is between 190 -230. That is a pretty small margin between the lot to say with one of them you would really be less likely to have a problem, even the best at 166.
So pretty meaningless chart that is.

 

[Splinter]

Yes, the prices differ, so do overall quality, but this was only about fuel consumption, and the quoted one for the Merc IS real life, one being used from day to day whereto I have physical access, so, no, they do Not use more fuel than quoted......2.5 l/100km less than the Chines equivalent, but delivering more power and having a heavier body.

I can't wait to see a Chinese car approaching a half mil kms vs a Merc with the same kms......last mentioned, I have experience of. I am yet to find any Chinese car still on the road with over 200k km, not to mention like 463k km (the Merc I refer to)

463 000 km's? I would say impressive, but I genuinely doubt that number, especially as its a Mercedes hatchback. But then again, to do those kilometers you would have to be doing a fluck-ton of long distance driving. Which might have something to do with low consumption...

 

[Corelli]

Don't need to, you chose Merc as the benchmark for your quality comparison. They can't even beat a Kia.

View attachment 1873784

Now you can answer your own question - how many Havals have you owned?


V8 in a hatch, lol. It's a 1.8T.

Exactly my point. Anyone can bring in a random comparison. Doesn't make it a valid one unless you are comparing something that competes in the same segment...

Nissan, Jaguar are both CRAP cars. Nissan uses Renault Gearboxes, which is why they have not all kept their market position and went from the best mini SUV in SA to the worst.

And I own a Merc. My insurance is less than half of my Toyota, my maintenance is cheaper than the Toyota, and it just drives better than my Toyota. I wont get another Toyota to replace either one. I would buy another Merc

 

[Splinter]

LOL a study where Nissan and Ford beat Merc. BMW, Toyota, VW
For me quality is more the quality of parts and material used. The road noise. The stitching of upholstery. The smoothness of the engine and gearbox.
Problems per 100 vehicles sound more like a reliability thing.
Also, the more basic things you have the less chance of it going wrong. Less chance of shocks and springs giving a problem than air suspension.

Sounds like a geriatric check-list. Reminds me of the gems we got in the manual vs automatic thread..

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

These little charts mean nothing.
People value their money and don't waste it on stupid things, OK most people.
Is it because of dumb people that Toyota and VW sell most cars in the world? I mean you can get much cheaper cars.
Shyte products and services don't last.
German(except Opel) and Japanese cars has build a reputation or decades. People don't pay a premium for them because they feel sorry for them.
Nothing wrong with buying a cheap Chinese/Indian car. But you must know there will be compromises. And don't compare it with a Toyota, Vw, Merc, BMW, because its not in the same league.
You get what you pay for.
We have seen many of these cheap brands come and go and left owners stranded. This sudden surge and hype for a few years means nothing.
The ones that stayed and proved themselves like KIA and Hyundai are definitely not cheap anymore.

 

[Pax]

463 000 km's? I would say impressive, but I genuinely doubt that number, especially as its a Mercedes hatchback. But then again, to do those kilometers you would have to be doing a fluck-ton of long distance driving. Which might have something to do with low consumption...

No! Don't confuse the car returning 6.3 l/100km (An A200), with the one I refer to with 463k km (a C240, and another C220d close to that)). Not the same one.

Experiences stretch over many, many cars, not just 1 or 2. Yes, the one did do many long distances, yet the body and everything lasted and help up very well. I've seen lesser cars with 100k km on looking worn and used. I've never seen a Merc, BM and others of that quality even looking different from a new car. I've recently accompanied someone wanting to purchase a Merc GLA, with a budget of R300k. I took away from the experience.........It is amazing how absent obvious wear and tear is and how rattle free and solid high km 10 year old Mercs are. I experince BM's are very similar. Volvo's only tend to show wear on the seats, else very similar.

That says 'good materials and build quality' to me.

 

[Splinter]

No! Don't confuse the car returning 6.3 l/100km (An A200), with the one I refer to with 463k km (a C240, and another C220d close to that)). Not the same one.

Experiences stretch over many, many cars, not just 1 or 2. Yes, the one did do many long distances, yet the body and everything lasted and help up very well. I've seen lesser cars with 100k km on looking worn and used. I've never seen a Merc, BM and others of that quality even looking different from a new car. I've recently accompanied someone wanting to purchase a Merc GLA, with a budget of R300k. I took away from the experience.........It is amazing how absent obvious wear and tear is and how rattle free and solid high km 10 year old Mercs are. I experince BM's are very similar. Volvo's only tend to show wear on the seats, else very similar.

That says 'good materials and build quality' to me.

Hmm. So now we have two new merc's added by you. Seems a bit creative, to me.

Would love to see this 463 000 km merc. Show us some pics.

 

[Pax]

Hmm. So now we have two new merc's added by you. Seems a bit creative, to me.

Would love to see this 463 000 km merc. Show us some pics.

Ooooh. Either my writing skills or your reading skills need some work. I never alluded to there only being one Merc in my frame of reference. I thought it was abundantly clear that I have a rather wide field of experience.

As for pics, please be patient. If I feel to bother to satisfy your 'Thomas syndrome', I'll get the owner.....in a town about 150k from me, to send me pics.....but to what purpose, I must ponder!

 

[airborne]

I've never seen a Merc, BM and others of that quality even looking different from a new car. I've recently accompanied someone wanting to purchase a Merc GLA, with a budget of R300k. I took away from the experience.........It is amazing how absent obvious wear and tear is and how rattle free and solid high km 10 year old Mercs are. I experince BM's are very similar. Volvo's only tend to show wear on the seats, else very similar

I don't know what you are smoking but it’s the strong stuff.

Luxury vehicles tend to look better for longer purely because they're generally owned by wealthy people that can afford to park them in garages etc and look after them. There's a very good reason why luxury vehicles can be bought for dirt cheap when they get older, it's due to their poor reliability and extreme cost of ownership. Older Mercs and BMW's in great cosmetic condition are a dime a dozen because no one wants them.

 

[Speedster]

I drew up a quick sheet comparing the car I got, the top spec Jolion and three German competitors.



- Fuel economy is the manufacturer's claim (we've established this isn't very accurate)
- Used price is 2025 model closest I could get to 5000km on cars.co.za

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

I was the first one on this thread to say get the Jolion and for the budget I stand by it that its the best choice. And a great car.
But again you cannot compare it with the German cars. Go drive the Tiguan and you will feel why you pay more, they not in the same class. Go drive the Merc or BMW and they even a step ahead of the Tiguan.
7 year warrantees mean nothing coming from the Chinese, we have seen them come and go before.
As for fuel consumption, I have seen enough post from owners on Reddit, FB etc saying they get 10-11L/100km in town to know that is probably the real figures and lets be honest, most people do most of their driving in town. Even Gauteng highways is like in town driving.
And yes you save a lot of money on the price plus maybe a bit on insurance to make up for the fuel cost. But you also take a big gamble if they decide to leave the country or not honour warrantees.
So the question is, after 5+ years of ownership, which will stand up to the test of time best when the costs of ownership starts to come closer between them.

 

[Speedster]

You do realise the Merc and Bmw models you quoted are both 4 wheel drive models? To compare, you should use data from their 2 wheel drive cars, the 1- series, not the X series in Bm's case and Merc, the A series, not the G series. 4 wheel drive cars will use more fuel by default and are heavier than 2 wheel drive models.

From my reading BMW X1 sDrive and Merc GLA200 are both front wheel drive.

 

[Pax]

From my reading BMW X1 sDrive and Merc GLA200 are both front wheel drive.

I realised immediately after my cursory reading initially I made a mistake, hence my deletion of my post. However, they still carry most of the initial 4wd weight as they were initially designed as such. Maybe the 1 series and A class will be more appropriate than the X and G series respectively as comparisons.

 

[Speedster]

I realised immediately after my cursory reading initially I made a mistake, hence my deletion of my post. However, they still carry most of the initial 4wd weight as they were initially designed as such. Maybe the 1 series and A class will be more appropriate than the X and G series respectively as comparisons.

I disagree that hatchbacks are more appropriate to compare to a crossover/SUV.

 

[Splinter]

Ooooh. Either my writing skills or your reading skills need some work. I never alluded to there only being one Merc in my frame of reference. I thought it was abundantly clear that I have a rather wide field of experience.

As for pics, please be patient. If I feel to bother to satisfy your 'Thomas syndrome', I'll get the owner.....in a town about 150k from me, to send me pics.....but to what purpose, I must ponder!

Well, proof of the odometer and how well the car held up. Also its fuel consumption

 

[Splinter]

I was the first one on this thread to say get the Jolion and for the budget I stand by it that its the best choice. And a great car.
But again you cannot compare it with the German cars. Go drive the Tiguan and you will feel why you pay more, they not in the same class. Go drive the Merc or BMW and they even a step ahead of the Tiguan.
7 year warrantees mean nothing coming from the Chinese, we have seen them come and go before.
As for fuel consumption, I have seen enough post from owners on Reddit, FB etc saying they get 10-11L/100km in town to know that is probably the real figures and lets be honest, most people do most of their driving in town. Even Gauteng highways is like in town driving.
And yes you save a lot of money on the price plus maybe a bit on insurance to make up for the fuel cost. But you also take a big gamble if they decide to leave the country or not honour warrantees.
So the question is, after 5+ years of ownership, which will stand up to the test of time best when the costs of ownership starts to come closer between them.

I currently drive a BMW, but dont suffer from any superiority complex over the new upstarts.

I have also read a LOT of Chinese-brand reviews lately, and I can tell you a common them is the testers comparing them to their MUCH more expensive German competitors - and almost without fail yhey sre saying the quality is on par.

Its hard for them to address your only real point - that of longevity.

Well, my brother in law just told me has done 50 000kms, in a year and a half, with his Haval.

No issues at all.

So that seems pretty good to me.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I was the first one on this thread to say get the Jolion and for the budget I stand by it that its the best choice. And a great car.
But again you cannot compare it with the German cars. Go drive the Tiguan and you will feel why you pay more, they not in the same class. Go drive the Merc or BMW and they even a step ahead of the Tiguan.
7 year warrantees mean nothing coming from the Chinese, we have seen them come and go before.
As for fuel consumption, I have seen enough post from owners on Reddit, FB etc saying they get 10-11L/100km in town to know that is probably the real figures and lets be honest, most people do most of their driving in town. Even Gauteng highways is like in town driving.
And yes you save a lot of money on the price plus maybe a bit on insurance to make up for the fuel cost. But you also take a big gamble if they decide to leave the country or not honour warrantees.
So the question is, after 5+ years of ownership, which will stand up to the test of time best when the costs of ownership starts to come closer between them.

I've driven a BMW, a VW and a Chinese car in the last few weeks.

All new models, the BMW is by far and away the best feeling in terms of quality but the worst in terms of tech, the vw is just a smidgen better than the Chinese in terms of quality feeling but only a bit better than the bmw in terms tech.

The Chinese cars are roughly half the price of the vw and a third of the price of the BMW.

So yeah you can't really compare it but the Chinese win on value for money every single time atm.

 

[Speedster]

I've driven a BMW, a VW and a Chinese car in the last few weeks.

All new models, the BMW is by far and away the best feeling in terms of quality but the worst in terms of tech, the vw is just a smidgen better than the Chinese in terms of quality feeling but only a bit better than the bmw in terms tech.

The Chinese cars are roughly half the price of the vw and a third of the price of the BMW.

So yeah you can't really compare it but the Chinese win on value for money every single time atm.

Which Chinese car are we talking about here?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Which Chinese car are we talking about here?

Cherry, MG and the omoda in a similar price range.

R320kish.

I did drive a byd sealion but that's a whole heap ton more and I'd put it almost on a BMW quality level for maybe 200k - 300k less.