Which would you pick?

[SauRoNZA]

Yes the Chinese cars are value for money, but only if you look at the short term gratification. Longs term I will still bet on the German cars. That is now long term on a car you buy and long term on the brand.

Chinese aside, the notion that German cars are more reliable long term is an objectively logical fallacy.

We KNOW they **** the bed at higher mileage and cost a fortune to repair which is why nobody wants to touch them without a motorplan.

VW, Audi and Mercedes are at the bottom of the JD Power lists year after year and BWM right in the middle and that doesn’t even look at long term when they **** cam chains, gearboxes, driveshafts and entire engines.

 

[SauRoNZA]

VW quality isn't great either, leaving BMW??

BMW is fairly reasonable with out of the box ownership and as long as that motor plan is there to cover your ass.

But soon as you put real mileage on things start costing serious money.

Which comes back to the point if they cost you double in the first place why frown on the Chinese for anything but your own image?

Which is why you see people constantly upgrading from one 320 to the next because they don’t ever want to risk having to pay for anything out of pocket.

 

[ToxicBunny]

BMW is fairly reasonable with out of the box ownership and as long as that motor plan is there to cover your ass.

But soon as you put real mileage on things start costing serious money.

Which comes back to the point if they cost you double in the first place why frown on the Chinese for anything but your own image?

Which is why you see people constantly upgrading from one 320 to the next because they don’t ever want to risk having to pay for anything out of pocket.

I do think bmw had a winner in the 320d at least, or at least the e90 and f30 variants.

It didn't cost me much outside of maintenance plan.. But I wouldn't touch a petrol bmw without one.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I've driven a BMW, a VW and a Chinese car in the last few weeks.

All new models, the BMW is by far and away the best feeling in terms of quality but the worst in terms of tech, the vw is just a smidgen better than the Chinese in terms of quality feeling but only a bit better than the bmw in terms tech.

The Chinese cars are roughly half the price of the vw and a third of the price of the BMW.

So yeah you can't really compare it but the Chinese win on value for money every single time atm.

And if you ignored the price and had to put a percentage to it how far apart would you say those cars really are on a perceived quality front?

 

[ToxicBunny]

And if you ignored the price and had to put a percentage to it how far apart would you say those cars really are on a perceived quality front?

At most 10% in reality.

And in the ways that most people care about maybe 5%.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I do think bmw had a winner in the 320d at least, or at least the e90 and f30 variants.

It didn't cost me much outside of maintenance plan.. But I wouldn't touch a petrol bmw without one.

I do love me a 320D.

But how long did you have it beyond the maintenance plan and how many kilometres on the odo when you let it go?

Because to me longevity is going beyond 10 years and/or 200,000km.

 

[SauRoNZA]

At most 10% in reality.

And in the ways that most people care about maybe 5%.

Exactly.

And then you bring the price into the equation and you have to ask yourself why anyone would be insane enough to go buy a newish German car.

If someone argues Japanese for slightly more money then I can say that’s a sensible decision.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I do love me a 320D.

But how long did you have it beyond the maintenance plan and how many kilometres on the odo when you let it go?

Because to me longevity is going beyond 10 years and/or 200,000km.

I bought it at 125k and had it for about 3 years before moving it on at around 180k and not due to anything with the car itself but more because I wanted a bakkie again and a bakkie made more sense to me given eSchitweni was flooding on a relatively regular basis at the time.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Hell I'm contemplating a new Chinese bakkie in the new year.

American Co-developed engine, European gearbox, and American transfer case and 4x4 system and Bosch electrical system. So yeah it's a Chinese bakkie in name but the bits you genuinely care about are global.

BYD Shark?

 

[ToxicBunny]

BYD Shark?

Foton v9.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Foton v9.

Jeez I didn’t even know you get them here now.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Jeez I didn’t even know you get them here now.

Just launched earlier this month.

My only complaint with the vehicle, and it's a minor minor one is the power, feels just a bit anemic for the size of the vehicle.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Chinese aside, the notion that German cars are more reliable long term is an objectively logical fallacy.

We KNOW they **** the bed at higher mileage and cost a fortune to repair which is why nobody wants to touch them without a motorplan.

VW, Audi and Mercedes are at the bottom of the JD Power lists year after year and BWM right in the middle and that doesn’t even look at long term when they **** cam chains, gearboxes, driveshafts and entire engines.

Yes it is common sense that an older car will need repairs.
The fact that you get 15+ year old German cars for sale everywhere and not much of these cheap brands, tells you all you need to know about reliability which you claim is a fallacy

 

[Speedster]

Yes it is common sense that an older car will need repairs.
The fact that you get 15+ year old German cars for sale everywhere and not much of these cheap brands, tells you all you need to know about reliability which you claim is a fallacy

You don't think there's another reason why there aren't many older Chinese cars for sale here?

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

First off all I did not say Chinese, I said cheaper brands.
Secondly Chery has been in SA since 2007, Foton since 2008. show us those old cars for sale? OH wait!
Many other cheaper brands have been in the market for more than 10 years.
The current new dumb and run artists brings nothing new to the argument, we can just use their history for reference.

 

[ToxicBunny]

First off all I did not say Chinese, I said cheaper brands.
Secondly Chery has been in SA since 2007, Foton since 2008. show us those old cars for sale? OH wait!
Many other cheaper brands have been in the market for more than 10 years.
The current new dumb and run artists brings nothing new to the argument, we can just use their history for reference.

Out if interest which dump and run brands are you referring to?

 

[Lupus]

Out if interest which dump and run brands are you referring to?

Now there are crickets. Wonder if he'll blow a gasket when he sees that there are still plenty of Chevy Sparks on the road. Or heaven forbid the Kwid

 

[ToxicBunny]

Now there are crickets. Wonder if he'll blow a gasket when he sees that there are still plenty of Chevy Sparks on the road. Or heaven forbid the Kwid

Or that many of these new brands are just chery or gwm or one of the other long established Chinese manufacturers doing a bit of brand engineering.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Now there are crickets. Wonder if he'll blow a gasket when he sees that there are still plenty of Chevy Sparks on the road. Or heaven forbid the Kwid

Shame man. I know you can do better, keep trying.
Its like saying I know a heavy smoker that is 92, so smoking is not bad for you.

PS Yes I genuinely know someone that is 92 and smokes more than 2 packets a day.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Shame man. I know you can do better, keep trying.
Its like saying I know a heavy smoker that is 92, so smoking is not bad for you.

PS Yes I genuinely know someone that is 92 and smokes more than 2 packets a day.

You love using false equivalences to try justify your opinion it seems.