Why Cloud Sucks..

SlinkyMike said:
OP is clearly not in a position to make these assertions.

What do I mean by that?

It's simple: anyone who has had to fit a solution to a financial plan within cash flow constraints would say what I am about to say: cloud is an utter no brainer when you consider the cost of an internally managed hardware stack, the inability to scale (AWS can automagically scale according to load) and the cost of resources to run the cursed thing.

Trust me when I tell you: I do not select solutions based on fads and trends. Cold hard cash money is the driver for these decisions.
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But there are factors you must consider. After all a Rand Per EC2 is a rand well spent but not necessarily invested when you consider the physical hardware an asset to the company that can later be traded off. And while AWS is indeed great I do find it rather non-elastic by the measurement of scaling when you consider that its not Volume Usage/Per Charge but rather Active Instance / Per Charge. So while the scale is "Elastic" the cost isn't as you pay for every instance fired up. But then I suppose you can't pay for 120% CPU usage :/

Pffft forget my caffeine babbling :D
 
FFF4Skin said:
But there are factors you must consider. After all a Rand Per EC2 is a rand well spent but not necessarily invested when you consider the physical hardware an asset to the company that can later be traded off.
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Computer hardware and data centers are, like cars, a complete loss.

You lost money on:
Building the infrastructure
Getting the servers
Racking
Power
Maintaining (salaries to keep it running)
Downtime (some companies build these silly disaster recovery sites, doubling up, just to "architect" against downtime)
..

I'm not even going to keep going because unless you utilize 100% of your computing power you already won with cloud.

My biggest gripe with non-cloud believers is this:
Consider that Amazon, Microsoft and Google are all hiring software developers by the hundreds. And in most cases some really talented software developers, something most companies can't hope to afford. Just looking at the rate Amazon has been hiring in SA, they are growing their development team at a rate that I don't think I've seen with other SA tech companies or otherwise. And Amazon in SA is only EC2, that is one division in a very, very large business.

Can you hire 1000+ developers to work just on the compute part of your data center? Take that to every other division and you begin to realize the size of this thing.

Matching the reliability they can give you with that team and features they can provide, it is obvious why public cloud has exploded the way it has.

My 2c.
 
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While I agree with the OPs sentiment, the arguments presented are mostly drivel. There are indeed a large number of people wanting to "go cloud" just because it's the in thing.
The main problem I have with "the buzz" is that "cloud computing" is too vague of a term and doesn't tell me in any way what you actually need, which will be completely different depending on the application. The amount you can benefit from "the cloud" also depends largely on how suitable the app is. Paying for a single instance app to run on someone else's server is not very "cloud" but can still have a lot of the same benefits and I'd just call this a hosted solution but it gets lumped in with "cloud" computing. Most of the time there is no cloud, just a server or two in a data center exposed to the same risks and costs as any other one.
 
Oh man I was looking for a good time-sink to take my mind off Ansible for a little while, and you've just provided it. Unfortunately, due to the militant strength of your assertions, commenters are more interested in tearing you a well-deserved new one, instead of trying to educate you about your misconceptions. So I'll give it a shot :)

Your files could be lost if you forget to pay for your online storage.
Yes, this is true. But this isn't an inherent failure of cloud computing so much as it is a failure of internal disaster recovery processes. It's not $cloudplatform's job to continue to provide you with storage you're not paying for. If there is an error in billing, you will generally receive multiple notifications about it before your service is revoked. But even if you have infinite finances to cover your cloud computing costs, accidents do happen, and it would be naive for anyone to not have their critical data backed up to multiple locations.

Your files are controlled by an outside company.
Indeed they are, to some extent. Based on many of your questions, you seem to equate "cloud computing" with Google Drive. While there are many companies who do store critical files (or, for the most part, databases) on the cloud, there are many legal precedents in place regarding how, for example, user credit card data is stored. It's up to the company to separate their concerns; migrating to the cloud does not mean every single aspect of IT is going to be ported to AWS, but rather that specific services that will actively benefit from a distributed computing environment will be migrated.

Security breaches will leave your secured files vulnerable.
This is also true of on-premise environments. But, of course, with on-premise environments, IT is seen as a business expense, so corners are cut in terms of employee numbers, hardware costs, and requisite training. But for a cloud platform like AWS, their entire business model revolves around supporting their platform, because that's how they make money.

Here's an interesting article about how AWS handles 0-day exploits.

I don't know about you, but I'm far more willing to entrust the security of my files to a Chief Information Security Officer who previously worked as an FBI section head, than I would be willing to entrust them to Dave from downstairs who has an N+ and MCSA.

Must always have an internet connection to access your files.
This again, I believe, comes from your misconceptions about the "cloud". Remember, it's not just Google Drive; it's not a single place to store your Powerpoint presentations. It's an entire distributed computing platform, with virtualized server instances, logical networking fabric, DNS, storage, big data processing, etc.

Think of it this way: It's like having access to all the benefits of an enterprize-grade data centre without any of the maintenance/administration overheads. That's all it is. And you only pay for what you use.

And if your work flow relies on you having permanent internet access in order to access your files, it is *you* who is making the error.

Could take more time to sync large files than its worth.

Also true. But again, not an inherent failure of cloud computing. Remember, what these cloud platforms are offering you is *choice*. They provide you with a staggering amount of modular features, and leave it up to you to decide how to leverage them. If one of your business processes relies on the syncing of large files, it is up to you to develop a methodology to manage that requirement. Perhaps this particular process wouldn't work well in a cloud environment. That's fine, keep it on-premise. But that doesn't negate all the benefits of cloud platforms for *other* business processes you may have, and thus is hardly a valid point for "why cloud sucks".

Your files are subject to the Patriot Act and ARE NOT confidential at all.
You keep talking about "files". Again, the cloud is not the place to keep your company's accounting data. It's for stateless web services, mobile applications, data processing, and so on. It's not an extension of your company's local \\WIN-SHARE\C$\Users\Administrator\Documents\Employees\Departments\Finance\Finance\2015\ shared drive.

If you're concerned about the security of your files, that's fine, don't put them in the cloud. But again, that does not negate the usefulness of cloud computing for *other* services.

Storage company could fold without warning.
This actually happened to me with Ubuntu One - I had all my dotfiles and bash scripts, etc. synced to UO, and didn't get the memo when they went down, so I lost everything. It was a sad day.

But! Ubuntu One was *free*; I had no reasonable right to expect that they persist my personal data on their systems for all eternity. They of course sent out multiple warning emails, but I missed them. That fault lies with me, and me alone.

But when you're talking about a service like AWS, you're absolutely not going to wake up one morning to a headline on reddit that reads "All AWS data wiped! When asked to comment, Jeff Bezos said "**** you"."

Oh wait, reddit would be down, because it runs on AWS. Along with half of the rest of the Internet.

Yeah, sure, something catastrophic could happen resulting in the loss of all AWS storage, but that would probably have to be on the scale of a Roland Emmerich film, and would probably mean you're not in a position to worry about the present state of your critical files because you're too busy trying to scavenge for food and avoid bandits in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Continued below :)
 
From above :)


Servers could go down temporarily or for a long period of time.
Yes, they could, and they do. Last year Amazon had to down 10% of their EC2 (virtual machines) service. You know what that outage resulted in? AWS having a total of 2.41 hours of downtime in ONE YEAR. That's still way above their 99.95% uptime SLA, and probably way above what any in-house technical team could manage at even 1/100th of that scale.

No recycle bin for deleted files.
Again, you're thinking of Google Drive. Cloud is not shared storage. Also, maybe don't delete your files if you still need them. User error is absolutely not a valid point for claiming that "cloud sucks".

Encryption is very limited.
Ummm... ?

Network encryption? SSL? IPsec? PGP? Disk encryption? Which one? I'm assuming you mean disk encryption, because you seem to think "cloud computing" is an extension of your hard drive.

You can manage your own encryption methods on cloud storage systems you instantiate. This isn't a Microsoft Software Suite, it's a distributed platform of systems providing various different features that you are able to use or ignore at your leisure. You aren't forced to use any one thing in any one way, and while some cloud platforms may have limitations to *implement an idea in a specific way*, they give you the administrative freedom to mitigate those limitations yourself.

Lack of available technical support.
As an AWS client, I have access to email support, telephonic support, and my own support representative. I have access to consultants who will learn about my specific requirements and endeavor to provide me with advice and recommendations on how best to leverage their platform to reach my desired requirements.

I don't know where you came up with this one. I'm guessing Google Drive. But guess what? Google Drive is provided to you for FREE; they don't owe you a goddamn thing.

Cloud Computing makes your IT excessively dependent on the Internet.
IT has become exponentially more dependent on the Internet ever since it came into being, and it will continue to do so ad infinitum. Why is this a bad thing?

Cloud computing is an *option*, not a *requirement*. If your specific business model can see no benefits to moving to the cloud, then *don't move to the cloud*. But again, that does not mean that cloud computing sucks simply because it doesn't work for your business specifically.

Obviously Cloud Computing is going to make it hard for Debbie in Finance to access her spreadsheets if her Internet goes down. But guess what? Cloud computing isn't *for* Debbie in Finance. It's for your technical department. Maybe they're sending out so many emails, they want to set up an email farm in the cloud. Who knows? What I do know, though, is that Internet access won't make any difference to the availability of your work emails. Why? Because if your company Internet goes down, you won't be getting emails anyway (even if your email server is on-premise), and if your home Internet goes down, you guessed it, you *won't be getting emails anyway*.

Cloud Computing makes you dependent on the goodwill of your ISP.
But what if my business is already dependent on the goodwill of my ISP? You know, like for Internet browsing and email? And if you're hosting everything on-premise, not only are YOU reliant on the goodwill of your ISP, but any user who may need access to servers you're hosting is too. You know, because your company website won't be accessible if your ISP has dropped your connection. Pretty sure that's not gonna happen if you were hosting in the cloud...

Cloud Computing will expose you to the unethical practices of your ISP.
See previous point.

Cloud Computing is against the spirit of Personal Computing. You don't own the data or programs.

"Parking garages are against the spirit of Personal Motoring. You don't own the petrol or the car."

Just because you're parking your data somewhere else, doesn't mean you don't still own it. And while I'm sure Richard Stallman would take umbrage with cloud computing, I'm pretty sure a company that *actually wants to make money* will have no such qualms.

Cloud Computing makes your Cloud Data subject to American law besides the patriot act.
Yeah, if you're hosting it in America. My stuff is in Ireland and Frankfurt, so I'm not too concerned.

Again, this is not a failure of cloud computing so much as a failure of your ability to account for that concern. Yeah sure, maybe hosting specific critical data (*cough*porn*cough*) could get you in trouble. But that's hardly the fault of cloud computing. It's your fault for being dumb enough to store data on a platform that is in the jurisdiction of a country who's laws said data is breaking.

Cloud Computing exposes your Confidential Data to Hackers.
See my point about AWS' CISO. Your data will *always* be exposed to hackers. There is nothing you can do about that besides making it harder to get. And you know what, I'm far more willing to trust AWS' security team with my data than I am the pimply-faced youth down in IT who only got the job because his mom is friends with the CEO and he "plays that Call of Duty game, so he must be good at computers".


Cloud Computing is of little consequence for the Average Small to Medium Business.
This one. This point right here. This is complete. and. utter. bull****.

But why? Because cloud computing is cheaper, easier, faster, and provides SMMEs with an enterprize-grade platform without them having to invest thousands of rands up front for their own on-premise DC. Suddenly SMMEs don't have to have a bunch of sysadmins, IT support staff, and their own security team, yet they're still able to leverage a platform that does have all those things at a *very* reasonable price.

We're at a point now where a lone mobile app developer can deploy a simple cloud-hosted service for their app, for FREE (AWS free tier), and they'll only have to start paying for it when the usage of his app requires him to increase the server size.

Cloud Computing does not contribute to your national economy.
The AWS Development Centre is in Cape Town. In one small way or another, every single person using AWS is contributing to our national economy ;)

But let's assume we're in Ghana, or something. No, maybe cloud computing doesn't directly support your national economy. But you know what does? Your business. The service your business provides. From the cloud.

Cloud Computing is not be as reliable as touted..
Again. AWS had 2.41 hours of downtime, in total, across their 500,000+ servers around the world, for the ENTIRE YEAR LAST YEAR.

That's 23 seconds per day.


It is abundantly clear that you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. That isn't a problem, though; you can't expect everyone to know everything. But what does irk me is the fact that you didn't make a post ASKING about cloud computing, you made a post condemning cloud computing, and misleading others who may find this post through a future Google search. You are doing South African IT a massive disservice by making such outrageous claims about something you so clearly misunderstand on a public forum such as this.

So please, in closing, the next time you decide to publicly bash something you don't understand:

check yo'self b4 you rek yo'self.
 
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Massive MWEB Business data loss

Of course, any production systems should have been backed up BUT the fact that everything was down for 3 days is not good, and then there is the time it takes to set everything up, re-copy databases and code, etc etc. Imagine you had dozens of clients on these servers, it could take weeks. Not to mention that now that the blank VM's have been restored, all the IP addresses have changed.
 
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There is no cloud.
It's just someone else's computer.
 
Gnome said:
Computer hardware and data centers are, like cars, a complete loss.

You lost money on:
Building the infrastructure
Getting the servers
Racking
Power
Maintaining (salaries to keep it running)
Downtime (some companies build these silly disaster recovery sites, doubling up, just to "architect" against downtime)
..

I'm not even going to keep going because unless you utilize 100% of your computing power you already won with cloud.

My biggest gripe with non-cloud believers is this:
Consider that Amazon, Microsoft and Google are all hiring software developers by the hundreds. And in most cases some really talented software developers, something most companies can't hope to afford. Just looking at the rate Amazon has been hiring in SA, they are growing their development team at a rate that I don't think I've seen with other SA tech companies or otherwise. And Amazon in SA is only EC2, that is one division in a very, very large business.

Can you hire 1000+ developers to work just on the compute part of your data center? Take that to every other division and you begin to realize the size of this thing.

Matching the reliability they can give you with that team and features they can provide, it is obvious why public cloud has exploded the way it has.

My 2c.
Click to expand...

Amazon in South Africa is actually more than just EC2. In fact just in AWS there is EC2, Customer Support, Premium Support (and some internal dev teams), as well as retail support for the US, Germany etc.

Go to http://www.adccpt.co.za/ to see all postings available.
 
I don't see what the fact that this is cloud based has to do with anything. This disaster could have happened just as easily on a dedicated server.
 
deweyzeph said:
I don't see what the fact that this is cloud based has to do with anything. This disaster could have happened just as easily on a dedicated server.
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But if it was your own server you'd be a lot more rigorous about backups, redundancy etc.
 
Sinbad said:
But if it was your own server you'd be a lot more rigorous about backups, redundancy etc.
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Only a fool would treat a cloud-based server any differently to a dedicated server. I've got a mix of cloud-based servers and dedicated servers in my setup and I treat the cloud servers no differently to the dedicated servers.

IS's VM setup is a joke in any case. You can't even compare it to Azure or AWS.
 
deweyzeph said:
Only a fool would treat a cloud-based server any differently to a dedicated server. I've got a mix of cloud-based servers and dedicated servers in my setup and I treat the cloud servers no differently to the dedicated servers.

IS's VM setup is a joke in any case. You can't even compare it to Azure or AWS.
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Many fools out there ;)
 
Sinbad said:
Many fools out there ;)
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Apparently! I hope some serious lessons have been learned by the businesses affected. Unfortunately the facts are that the majority of businesses who suffer a catastrophic data loss of this magnitude with no backups will never recover.
 
I feel for these customers, some of them paid Mweb Business for offsite backups, but when their provisioning error happened it deleted the customers backups along with the VM.
 
Murmaider said:
I feel for these customers, some of them paid Mweb Business for offsite backups, but when their provisioning error happened it deleted the customers backups along with the VM.
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holy crap.
 
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