Why does Britain have an Islamist problem while America doesn't? Answer:Welfare state

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Source: Daily Telegraph

A very good article. Funny how America is portrayed as anti-Islam and yet many Muslims integrate better there than the kind, gentle, "caring" countries of Western Europe...

London was the global headquarters of Islamic terrorism in the years before and after 9/11. This fact wasn’t exactly a closely guarded secret, but the WikiLeaks Guantánamo Bay files shed interesting new light on the American perspective. (I especially like the detail that the US government suspected the BBC of being a “possible propaganda media network” for al-Qaeda after a BBC phone number was found on a terrorist. What do they mean “possible”? Have they not listened to Radio 4?)

London became the world terrorist hub partly because the country had a long tradition of shielding dissenters of all stripes; because it had a very unintrusive state compared to its European neighbours (no ID cards); and because of Britain’s historic links with many Arab countries. But there was another reason, and this is central to the reason why Europe has an Islamist problem and the United States doesn’t – the welfare state. Welfare is intimately linked to the failure of western European countries to integrate their Muslim populations, and explains why Britain has such a problem with Islamism.

Look at the two figures named by US intelligence as responsible for recruiting dozens of terrorists, Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza. Qatada, a Jordanian preacher and advisor to shoe bomber Richard Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui, the 9/11 plotter, was expelled from Kuwait for supporting the Iraqi invasion, then claimed asylum in Britain on the grounds of religious persecution. We granted it, naturally. Come in!

While spending his time raising money for the destruction of the West (he was once caught with £170,000 in cash, including £850 on an envelope with the less-than-enigmatic words “For the Mujahedin in Chechnya” on the front), he was happy to receive £400 a week in government benefits – £322 for housing and £70 for disability.

Abu Hamza, the hook-handed Yemeni, was a phenomenal sponger. His London house cost taxpayers £2400 a month, and at one point he was receiving over £500 a month for incapacity benefits while his wife received an additional £1300 a month. Abu Hamza even sued the government for extra benefits.

One only has to look at America’s experience with Islam to see how welfare and diversity do not mix. EU Muslims are over six and a half times more likely, proportionately, to be arrested for terrorist offences than American Muslims. In surveys well over two thirds of American Muslims said they believed they can make it in America with hard work, a higher proportion than Americans generally, reflecting their belief in the American Dream.

Fewer than half think themselves Muslims first and Americans second, compared to 81 per cent in Britain. Yet America is, by any measurable standards, far more “Islamophobic” than Britain, with far more public criticism and mockery of that religion. In place of the American Dream, Britain has the European Nightmare, a welfare system that disincentives assimilation and breeds resentment.

Welfare states were designed for fairy ancient, largely homogenous European countries in the retirement stage of civilisation; but combined with open borders, as Milton Friedman predicted, welfare is unsustainable, socially divisive and potentially dangerous. The Americans have every right to despair at the strange, self-destructive behaviour of their ally.

 

[Alan]

The left have really been pushing this supposed "Islamophobia" in the U.S lately. It's just fearmongering and smearing those who oppose there attempts to implement European style multiculturalism.

After all it's works so well in France...


Youths burned 1,137 cars across France overnight as New Year's Eve celebrations once again turned violent, the French Interior Ministry said on Friday.

or 2005 state of emergency there were they torched nearly 9000 cars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Fewer than half think themselves Muslims first and Americans second, compared to 81 per cent in Britain.

Very interesting.

Afaik Muslims were also relatively calm in the USA about the Koran burning. I wonder what the Muslims in the UK would have done had it happened there.

 

[w1z4rd]

Your headline is so clutching at straws.

1) Geography, geography, geography
2) Politics, politics, politics

Geez blaming it on the welfare state is so wrong its funny. Britain is closer to the Middle East than the USA is and many commonwealth countries are from all over the globe. Britian and Europe are more accessible. There are a couple of million in america, there are 53 million in Europe.

Using "Chris logic", the ultimate welfare states (Canada, Scandinavian countries) should be over run with "Muslim problems"...

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Well Canada is an interesting country. While it is socialist, the current PM is a Conservative and they do have tough immigration policies in place. They're not the "all embracing type"...

Regarding Scandanavian countries, I am sure they do have problems. Remember the Muhammed cartoon? The cartoonist is in a special house IIRC. Also of course there is the language barrier.

Obviously the welfare state is not the only reason for radical Islam, but I think what the author is saying is that it encourages radicals to come in.

 

[w1z4rd]

Well Canada is an interesting country. While it is socialist, the current PM is a Conservative and they do have tough immigration policies in place. They're not the "all embracing type"...

Canadians are knowns as conservatives with liberal views. I know plenty of Canadians and NONE of them are anything like a conservative American or conservative South African. They are one of the most placid welcoming people I know.

Regarding Scandanavian countries, I am sure they do have problems. Remember the Muhammed cartoon? The cartoonist is in a special house IIRC.

Yup cause he shares a continent with Muslim countries. Its a lot more accessible. That was one of my points earlier.

Also of course there is the language barrier.

Applicable to English as well.

Obviously the welfare state is not the only reason for radical Islam, but I think what the author is saying is that it encourages radicals to come in.

Dude... thats seriously something Glenn Beck said. omg. Thats the dude not even Fox could handle. Theyve kicked him out.

 

[Alan]

Sweden's third largest city, Malmö, sits just across the water from Copenhagen, Denmark. To visitors, Malmö seems quiet, nice, maybe a little boring; in other words, quintessentially Swedish. But under the surface, Malmö has serious problems.

Click the player to see the report from CBN News Senior Reporter Dale Hurd followed by comments from Pat Robertson.

On Saturday when Israel played Sweden in a Davis cup tennis match in Malmö, an estimated 6,000 Leftists, Arabs, Muslims and anarchists protested the Israeli presence in the city, and hundreds attacked police. Almost no fans were allowed inside to watch the tennis series, because authorities feared disruptions or possible violence against the Israeli team.


Massive immigration has made Malmö today one quarter Muslim, and stands to transform it into a Muslim majority city within just a few decades. One of the most popular baby names is not Sven, but Mohammed. Pork has been taken off some school menus. Want to learn to drive? You can attend Malmö's own "Jihad Driving School."

But despite Malmö's usually placid appearance, this experiment in multiculturalism has not gone well. In the Rosengaard section of Malmö, a housing project made up primarily of immigrants, fire and emergency workers will no longer enter without police protection.

Unemployment in Rosengaard is reported to be 70 percent. An immigrant-fueled crime wave affects one of every three Malmö families each year. The number of rapes has tripled in 20 years.

But Malmö has been so accommodating toward immigrant Muslims that a local Muslim politician, Adly Abu Hajar, has declared that "The best Islamic state is Sweden!"

Jews Cannot Walk The Streets

Don't ask Malmö's Jews to give the city the same glowing assessment. Jews who dare walk the streets wearing their yarmulkes risk being beaten up.

"It's true. Jews cannot walk the streets of Malmö and show that they're Jews," said Lars Hedegaard.

Hedegaard lives across the water from Malmö in Copenhagen, Denmark, where he was a columnist for one of Denmark's largest newspapers. He says pro-Israel demonstrations in Malmö, like the ones during the fighting in Gaza earlier this year, were met with rocks, bottles and pipe bombs from Arabs and Leftists.

Rosengård, literally "Rose garden", is a city district in Malmö, Sweden. As of 1 January 2007, the population was 21,955, of which 60 percent were born outside of Sweden.[1] In 2008 a total 86% of the population in the city district was of foreign background.[2] Although frequently incorrectly referred to as a suburb, Rosengård constitutes an integral part of Malmö city and is, contrary to common belief, fairly centrally located, neighbouring the city's Centrum district.

It has also been the scene of regular clashes between youth and police.[3] Fire crews have also been threatened and attacked by local youth. As a result, the Malmö Fire Department refuses to respond to fire calls in Rosengård without police escort.[4]

Going great there

 

[w1z4rd]

Here you go Chris, more stuff to support your view: http://thewestislamandsharia.blogspot.com/2011/04/islamists-on-welfare-paid-to-plot-wests.html

 

[noxibox]

Desperately trying to find things to blame on the welfare state. Isn't it also fattening and major cause of skin cancer?

Well Canada is an interesting country. While it is socialist, the current PM is a Conservative and they do have tough immigration policies in place. They're not the "all embracing type"...

Contrary to what is claimed Britain's is and has long been tough too.

 

[Picard]

America can thank God that the Mexicans aren't Muslim.

 

[Nothxkbi]

Your headline is so clutching at straws.

1) Geography, geography, geography
2) Politics, politics, politics

Geez blaming it on the welfare state is so wrong its funny. Britain is closer to the Middle East than the USA is and many commonwealth countries are from all over the globe. Britian and Europe are more accessible. There are a couple of million in america, there are 53 million in Europe.

Using "Chris logic", the ultimate welfare states (Canada, Scandinavian countries) should be over run with "Muslim problems"...

I'm so glad you brought up Scandanavian countries. Lets pick Sweden.

[video=youtube;dlG75wb7lLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/video]

 

[w1z4rd]

I'm so glad you brought up Scandanavian countries. Lets pick Sweden.

roflmao. You do know that video is the biggest load of crap? According to that video Sweden will be the first Europeans to vanish. Also according to that video there are bloody violent flame filled protest daily in Sweden, and that a school is burnt down every week in Sweden. So far every "fact" I checked in that video was false or distorted.

lol. More alarmist fearmongering bs. Please dont tell me you believe blatantly false right wing propaganda like that?

 

[Elimentals]

America can thank God that the Mexicans aren't Muslim.

Dude that quote made my day!!!!!!

 

[Alan]

IIRC Sweden also has the highest incidence of rape and the lowest conviction rate in Europe

The problem is not so much immigration but multiculturalism. In Europe the recipe for disaster is allowing masses of unskilled immigrants into their countries and herding them into cheap housing neighbourhoods like in Sweden and France. Under the guise of tolerance they allow backward social practices to continue in these separated societies. As part the welfare system native citizens then have to pay for the immigrants boarding, living expenses, healthcare and education. Education may be free but it counts for little since immigrants are discriminated against for example in Sweden which has a huge immigrant population but public institutions are all lilly white. You may have a degree but you won't amount to much more than a cab driver

In these conditions extremism flourishes.

 

[WilD_CaT]

Your headline is so clutching at straws.

1) Geography, geography, geography
2) Politics, politics, politics

Geez blaming it on the welfare state is so wrong its funny. Britain is closer to the Middle East than the USA is and many commonwealth countries are from all over the globe. Britian and Europe are more accessible. There are a couple of million in america, there are 53 million in Europe.

Using "Chris logic", the ultimate welfare states (Canada, Scandinavian countries) should be over run with "Muslim problems"...

Wiz is right.

Although I will admit the idea of hand-outs is an incentive to go from the middle east to those countries, you certainly cannot rule out simple geographic location.

I have read problems in some scandinavian countries regarding the "ex-foreign" minorities, but again I question Wiz's use of the words "welfare state" when referencing Canada who is, according to Heritage the 6th most economically free market country in the world (Denmark is 8).

Canada is exceptionally free marketed orientated, but they have a socialised healthcare system (One of the few areas the state interferes in). I don't think one minor bit of socialism immediately makes a state a "welfare" state in that sense of the word. But that's just my opinion...

 

[Nothxkbi]

roflmao. You do know that video is the biggest load of crap? According to that video Sweden will be the first Europeans to vanish. Also according to that video there are bloody violent flame filled protest daily in Sweden, and that a school is burnt down every week in Sweden. So far every "fact" I checked in that video was false or distorted.

lol. More alarmist fearmongering bs. Please dont tell me you believe blatantly false right wing propaganda like that?

I think a large part of it is down to perspective Wiz. I mean back home in Oxford, I hardly ever see Muslims. Even whilst on a lunch break walking around Oxford you see very few of them walking around wearing their hajib, maybe one or two in an entire hour lunch break sitting on a bench sipping your cofee. However in the brief stint I did a contract in Manchester, let's just say that was a whole different story. They are everywhere and numbering in their hundreds of thousands if not millions. You feel like the only white guy there.

The point is, even in Sweden they have their "areas" and it wouldn't be fair for you or I to simply say; "You know this is right wing bull****" because neither of us have stayed there, but I do understand the demographics of a 1st world country, perhaps more so than you as I have lived there most of my life. I understand how one town can be different from another as night and day.

 

[Gushesh]

Using "Chris logic", the ultimate welfare states (Canada, Scandinavian countries) should be over run with "Muslim problems"...

I lol'd at "Chris logic"

 

[w1z4rd]

The point is, even in Sweden they have their "areas" and it wouldn't be fair for you or I to simply say; "You know this is right wing bull****" because neither of us have stayed there,

Dude... this has almost nothing to do with "perspective" The evidence is empirical, do a fact check. Thats right wing bs. 90% of Swedes would be shocked by that crap. Theyre generally a good people and not as closes minded and bigoted as that movie makes them out to be. Its basically like an AWB member giving his perspective of SA on Youtube. Its crock and a couple of google searches can prove the lies and distortions in most the points put across (well every fact I checked). The logic is fail in that video and it certainly does not represent the social school of thought of most Swedes.

Im disappointed you have trouble identifying this...

 

[DurbanMonkey]

+1

America can thank God that the Mexicans aren't Muslim.

Sent from my X10i using MyBroadband Android App

 

[Dixie]

The Yanks are armed to the teeth. Imagine any minority group attempting to torch the Stars and Stripes in hillbilly country...