Why does Mbkei support Mugabe?

I wonder what implications this might have for us since T-Bone doesn't care/do jack :

"I am instructing the secretaries of State and Treasury to develop sanctions against this illegitimate government of Zimbabwe and those who support it," Bush said in a statement Saturday.
 
PostmanPot said:
Could you provide a link to an entry/entries which demonstrates these supposed "clear" messages?
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*Sigh* .. I guess a man doesn't see what he doesn't want to see.

Do you read the news much?
 
You know, I don't like it when people expect information to be handed to them on a platter, but then seem to hold an opinion on a matter anyway even when they haven't researched it. In this world all the information you need to make informed decisions doesn't always get handed to you, life is not like school, you don't get handouts listing everything you need to know for the 'exam', and the media does not fulfil that role. Nor should I have to, though I suppose I made the claim, I still expect people to actually be in the habit of keeping themselves up to date on what's happening in their world that might affect them.

Here's a few links about Mbeki's government:

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2084877,00.html
'Many still fear black people'
Mbeki said racism remained a "daily feature of our lives, a demon that must be exorcised", to achieve national reconciliation

http://www.news24.com/News24/Archive/0,6119,2-1659_979097,00.html
'Criminals discredit democracy'
President Thabo Mbeki accused "those wishing to discredit our democracy" of being behind the crime wave (Quiz, who do you think Mbeki wants the people to assume he means when he says "those wishing to discredit our democracy"?)

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2154593,00.html
'Colonial masters to blame'
The continued control of African countries by their former colonial masters was one of the main contributors to crises on the continent, President Thabo Mbeki said … there was an urgent need for Africans to take full control of their own destiny … neo-colonial stranglehold (Wait a minute, doesn't that sound more like something Mugabe might've said? Cleverly worded though, isn't it.)

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2189001
'Stop abuse of farm workers'
Nearly 3 000 people rallied on Saturday in the northern South African town of Mafikeng to demand that the country's overwhelmingly black farm labourers are not ill-treated, the organisers said. The rally follows a threat by the country's land minister to expropriate land from farmers who mistreat their workers. (Claims that whites continue to abuse blacks on farms as a widespread problem.)

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,9294,2-7-12_2085607,00.html
Mbeki 'may be right about whites'
Mbeki quoted various anecdotes in his letter illustrating how black people still were regarded as inferior either in the workplace or socially, and how they are referred to as Kaff*rs. … He exaggerated the perception of crime in South Africa to show how there was still an underlying racism against black people. He said: "The fact of the matter is that there is still a significant part of the white minority … who live in fear of the black and in particular the African majority," he said. "Each incident that is reported communicates the terrible and expected message 'the Kaff*rs are coming'."

http://www.capetimes.co.za/?fSectionId=272&fArticleId=vn20080305053250953C336972
Former Free State premier-turned-MP Winkie Direko ... caught on camera making a throat-slitting gesture at an opposition MP during a heated debate in parliament.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2098351,00.html
Mbeki: Slavery in new clothes
Human slavery in a new form has emerged internationally and has yet to be defeated, said President Thabo Mbeki on Friday. … The contemporary global economy and society had given birth to various forms of economic activity affecting millions of human beings, that were akin to the loss of personal freedom experienced by the slaves of the past. "This suggests that the past historic victories against slavery succeeded to defeat and suppress slavery only for a limited period of time," he said. … "Surely the moment will once again come round when the newly enslaved will once more rise up to liberate themselves. Undoubtedly, once again (as in the past), there will be people of conscience within the developed world, who will join the newly enslaved in a concerted and sustained uprising that will, once more, constitute a landmark in the evolution of human society."

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Elections2004/0,6119,2-7-1557_1496780,00.html
Mbeki: People died for SA
"People used to say 'die Kaffers is lui' (the Kaff*rs are lazy). Our people have never been lazy, we are not lazy now." Juxtaposing white lives with those of blacks, Mbeki said: "Sometimes when you are in a helicopter and look down, you don't have to ask which one is a white suburb and which one is an African location. You can see it from the trees."

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1708406,00.html
Leon blasts 'racist tantrum'
Xingwana attacked mining company Anglo American for appointing "a CEO for whites and a CEO for blacks", and diamond giant De Beers for its "lily-white and male-dominated" board … "Deputy minister Xingwana … set a new low-mark for xenophobia last year when she attacked the DA's Nigerian-born trade and industry spokesperson Enyinna Nkem-Abonta, telling him to go home. "On Thursday, she threw another racist tantrum, accusing South Africa's largest companies of retaining too many white management staff.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1589177,00.html
'White capitalists' slammed
Deputy minerals minister Lulu Xingwana has launched a stinging attack on "white capitalists" whom she accused of having stolen South Africa's mineral wealth in the past … "Rich white cartels are continuing even today to loot our diamonds and take them to London."

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-1786_2113599
Govt: We're not anti-white
'Too many white women' … Manyi singled out statistics on white women in particular, saying that there was "serious over-representation" of white women in top management positions [claims that the majority of whites are racists

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-1786_2189091
Why white women must go

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2182207,00.html
Govt: We'll take your land
... the government now intends to use existing legislation to tackle what he called "this medieval practice which is allowed to continue and continue", by expropriation

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2146771,00.html
White capitalists still at top
The main beneficiaries of economic transformation had been white capitalists who remained the "Induna", while the black middle class were given jobs in areas such as human resources … "They remain as oppressed by the white oligarchy as the working class" … He warned that the patience of the working class was wearing thin. They were demanding that the benefits of sustained economic growth should be shared with the people who created the wealth. As the class battles intensified "we can expect the attacks on all of us to intensify", Vavi said. (Note this is the same COSATU that Zuma, whose core platform is practically built on "bring me my machine gun" (to shoot who?) is closely aligned with.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2050188.stm
Row over South Africa funeral
Members of the crowd at the funeral chanted "Kill the Boer, kill the farmer"

http://www.news24.com/Die_Volksblad/Briewe/0,,5-89_2118065,00.html
Here Peter Maloka effectively says that all whites are criminals, and makes derogatory comments about all whites having come off ships and being criminals.

During the height of the xenophobia attacks, Mbeki's government also continually alluded (without evidence) to 'right-wing forces' that were 'behind' and 'instigating' the violence. They also blamed whites for electricity problems - e.g. remember the 'plot' whereby a 'bolt' was thrown into Koeberg, or saying that the more recent problems were due to the 'legacy of apartheid' - the old government never built enough for the blacks you see.

You might also find it instructive to read up more on farm killings. One thing that is particularly interesting is their "report" that they produced on the "motives" behind farm attacks. Even when the perpetrators basically came out and openly stated 'I tortured and killed the farmers because I hate whites' or when they stated that it was revenge for apartheid or anything along those lines, this is basically brushed away and dismissed as having really been other non-political/non-race-based motives (e.g. the assumption is made that the perps are definitely lying in order to put a political slant on their crimes in the hopes of possible amnesty - and that kind of assumption is used for the conclusions, thereby "proving" no racial motivation in any attacks).

There is plenty more crap, and this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg, the tiny little bits that the public happen to be exposed to. Things are never what they seem in SA.

And for interest, a video of Mandela singing about killing whites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc
 
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Turtle said:
You know, I don't like it when people expect information to be handed to them on a platter, but then seem to hold an opinion on a matter anyway even when they haven't researched it. In this world all the information you need to make informed decisions doesn't always get handed to you, life is not like school, you don't get handouts listing everything you need to know for the 'exam', and the media does not fulfil that role. Nor should I have to.
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Excuse me, I have no opinion on the matter. I'm on the fence.

Now, are you going to provide links to an entry/entries on Thabo's blog in which his supposed hatred of whites is evident?
 
@ Turtle: Thanks for the edit. I've read all of those articles. Yes I do read/watch the news. I agree that there are openly racist members of the ANC whose acts are worrying.

But I am more interested in a link to Thabo's blog in which he alludes to "his hatred of all whites"?

I am not interested in his hatred for minority groups of (racist) whites which some of the articles you quoted refer to. I dislike them too.
 
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PostmanPot said:
I am not interested in his hatred for minority groups of (racist) whites which some of the articles you quoted refer to. I dislike them too.
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Do you really believe it's just the 'minority of racist whites' he hates? I find that idea flabbergasting. I think Mbeki has merely tried to portray himself as a moderate with a cabinet who perhaps at times accidentally express their incredible racism. In reality the whole lot hate whites thoroughly. I thought Mbeki's obvious alignment with and support for Mugabe (and not just "we agree" type of support, but "here's lots of money and weapons too and BTW your refugees are welcome to flood our borders" type of support) would make his stance a bit more obvious, but I guess more time is still needed for people to truly wake up to the reality that is the new SA. Maybe it's just too hard for most to believe, especially since we've been brainwashed with 14 years of "rainbow nation" propaganda about this dream democracy we now have, and thinking we live somewhere that isn't genuinely just Africa.

Mbeki is smart. He knows he can use a word like "racist" instead of "white" to refer to all whites. Because to the international community and South African whites, "racist" indeed is seen as a bad thing only committed by a minority of people. And to blacks, he knows that the word "racist" is synonymous with "all whites". If you don't realise this, it suggests you probably don't know too many black people closely enough. You think these people want to sit and figure out on an individual basis which whites are racists and which ones aren't, and will be nice to the ones that aren't? Just like what, the so-called xenophobes sat the foreigners down to tea and carefully considered which were really criminals and which ones weren't?

Nonetheless we might well one of these days be pining for "the good old days under Mbeki".
 
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Turtle said:
Do you really believe it's just the 'minority of racist whites' he hates?
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Well, yes.

I could not find any thing in the news links you pasted that alluded to Mbeki hating all whites. :confused:

That's why I'm waiting for a link to Thabo's blog in which he alludes to "his hatred of all whites", which you spoke about earlier.
 
PostmanPot said:
@ Turtle: Thanks for the edit. I've read all of those articles. Yes I do read/watch the news. I agree that there are openly racist members of the ANC whose acts are worrying.

But I am more interested in a link to Thabo's blog in which he alludes to "his hatred of all whites"?

I am not interested in his hatred for minority groups of (racist) whites which some of the articles you quoted refer to. I dislike them too.
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I laugh at guys like you...kissing politically correct a$$ right till the end. We all know how it ends. :rolleyes:
You think Tbone is going to publicly say it? Where there is smoke there sure is a fire.
Turtle please don't feed the troll.
 
*sigh* i am for this country but not for its leaders, Mbeki has pulled our country down n i dare to think wat Mr Jacob illiterate-no-matric-certificate-but-i-can-lead-a-country-rapist-jump-up-n-down-n-u-wont-get-AIDS zuma the lil f'up that he is will do to this country, whoever votes for him is an example of an idiot that knows no better than zuma, i wonder if racism will ever end, all races nowadays are racist ,its a fact
 
marine1 said:
I laugh at guys like you...kissing politically correct a$$ right till the end. We all know how it ends. :rolleyes:
You think Tbone is going to publicly say it? Where there is smoke there sure is a fire.
Turtle please don't feed the troll.
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Trolling? :confused: Pardon me... :rolleyes:

I am not bitter, I have had nothing taken away from me... Excuse me for not being able to link certain things Mbeki has said with the "hatred of whites", which according to Toffee (and others) is true.
 
the UN should take action in SA against mbeki
 
Turtle, you are wasting your time debating with Postmanpot. He is so far removed from reality it is frightening. Facts mean nothing to him. He is on a mission to defend the indefencible and will not be diverted by truth, fact or reality. Give him a miss, or you'll drive yourself nuts. The man is in total denial.
 
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