Why is vodacom ignoring me?

[simonk]

Hi, I'm posting this out of desperation. I heard there was a vodacom employee who posted on this site, and since none of the other means of communication seem to be working, I thought this might work.
I've been trying to sort this out since the beginning of the month.
Here is the hellopeter.com post I made. response: nul.

http://www.hellopeter.com/the_comment.asp?recid=90991

I no longer know what to do. I am angry and frustrated. I am seriously considering going to a lawyer too see if I can somehow extract myself from this contract.

I understand that bad service is the norm for South Africa, but I honestly don't think it should be. I think to some extent it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure that they demand good service. Service providers in this country are a bit like small children, if you don't teach them manners and bring them up properly, they're going to spend the rest of their lives(and yours) behaving badly.

Now the way I see it, vodacom need to contact me and explain their actions to me. Either fix my problem, or tell me why they can't.

 

[Datura]

SUPPLIER'S RESPONSE
Time: 16:51:15
Tue 24 Jul 07

Hello simonk

Please accept my apology for the delay in resolving the matter.

Kindly be advised that I have escalated the matter to our VSP Division for assistance and feedback.

Kind Regards
Lomarie Kelso

I agree that this sort of issue should take no more than a phonecall to resolve. I hope it gets sorted out.

 

[ic]

@simonk, unfortunately v3g [Vodacom representative] is not in SA right now, but he might be able to help from his present location somewhere in Europe on the back of a hog using HSDPA to check in on this forum & emails etc. I suggest that you use this link to send him a private message that includes the full details of the problem as well as your contact and contract details and reference numbers etc - the whole story in a politely worded private message which he can then pass on to the relevant person(s) at VSP.

 

[Csnoopy]

Not so good for R100 if I am correct what happens if it goes into thousands of Rands.

I suggest you phone this number 011 653 5000 and ask to speak to the MD.

 

[AirWolf]

@simonk, if I understand correctly, the debit order was send through early, you had insufficient funds and the bank charged you a fee because the debit order didn't go through? I have noticed that the bottom of my statemants always states the date when the debit order will be processed. Mine is set for the last day of the month but for June it was processed on the 29th as per the date mentioned at the bottom of my statement. I issume that if your normal debit order day falls on a weekend or public holiday the debit order will be processed on the first business day preceding the debit order date.

 

[stvfry]

It always pays to read your contract. Mine clearly says that the debit order will be presented on the last working day (Mon to Fri) of the month! Therefore if the 31st falls on a Sunday my debit order goes through on the 29th.

 

[Csnoopy]

The point I believe simonk is making is that the service is poor not the R100 debit order that went in early. We have the same problem with our 3G contract, people just dont come back to you. They should even if they dont have an answer they should.

 

[AirWolf]

The point I believe simonk is making is that the service is poor not the R100 debit order that went in early. We have the same problem with our 3G contract, people just dont come back to you. They should even if they dont have an answer they should.

I don't understand how he can make these claims when he didn't read his contract properly But sure a timeous reiteration of the contract terms from Vodacom would have certainly helped the situation.

 

[ic]

The point I believe simonk is making is that the service is poor not the R100 debit order that went in early. We have the same problem with our 3G contract, people just dont come back to you. They should even if they dont have an answer they should.

The impression I got, is that simonk is complaining about a lack of response from VSP, in fact I don't think that simonk has posted anything here or in the link to HelloPeter.com about 3G.

 

[simonk]

I don't understand how he can make these claims when he didn't read his contract properly But sure a timeous reiteration of the contract terms from Vodacom would have certainly helped the situation.

I guess the point I'm making is that the service is unforgivably bad, and also, if they intended to take the debit order off whenever they pleased, why did they request that I select a date for the debit order? The date I marked was the first. It doesn't make any sense that they ask me to define a variable which they plan to ignore anyway.
The contract in question is a 3G contract. This is why I posted here. I probably would not have done so if it wasn't.

 

[ic]

I guess the point I'm making is that the service is unforgivably bad, and also, if they intended to take the debit order off whenever they pleased, why did they request that I select a date for the debit order? The date I marked was the first. It doesn't make any sense that they ask me to define a variable which they plan to ignore anyway.
The contract in question is a 3G contract. This is why I posted here. I probably would not have done so if it wasn't.

2007-07-01 was a Sunday, and for as long as I can remember, debit orders against bank accounts only run on normal business weekdays, not on weekends and public holidays.

However, the questions that need to be asked, are:
what debit order payment date appeared on the tax invoice for that billing period, and what does the actual contract say??

 

[simonk]

Hmmm. I hear you. I understand your point. The contract does state that it's the last working day of the month(on the back, in small print, on the front it says the first). My problem, I guess, is that I was led to believe, by the necessity of having to select a date for the debit order, that that date was somehow the date that would be used. Which has more validity? The date on the front, or the date on the back? There may be something I'm missing here, but I don't understand the logic of requesting a date from me, thereby implying that it would be used, and then ignoring it.

 

[Csnoopy]

Hmmm. I hear you. I understand your point. The contract does state that it's the last working day of the month(on the back, in small print, on the front it says the first). My problem, I guess, is that I was led to believe, by the necessity of having to select a date for the debit order, that that date was somehow the date that would be used. Which has more validity? The date on the front, or the date on the back? There may be something I'm missing here, but I don't understand the logic of requesting a date from me, thereby implying that it would be used, and then ignoring it.

.

@Simonk. Is there no condition applied to the date on the front?

 

[ic]

Hmmm. I hear you. I understand your point. The contract does state that it's the last working day of the month(on the back, in small print, on the front it says the first). My problem, I guess, is that I was led to believe, by the necessity of having to select a date for the debit order, that that date was somehow the date that would be used. Which has more validity? The date on the front, or the date on the back? There may be something I'm missing here, but I don't understand the logic of requesting a date from me, thereby implying that it would be used, and then ignoring it.

I don't remember if I specified a debit order date when I took out my 4U contract, and it might be that that field appears on the contract form for future use, but legally speaking, I would think that what appears in the standard terms & conditions of the contract - if not amended by yourself, is what applies...

When signing a contract, one can actually amend terms & conditions, i.e. delete or change Ts&Cs that one does not agree with - both the contract holder and the service provider representative would need to sign next to each of these changes for such changes to be valid, however it is unlikely that a cellular service provider representative would have the authority to agree to amended standard Ts&Cs, and would therefore not sign for any such amendments.

@simonk, what debit order date was printed on your June 2007 Tax Invoice?

 

[simonk]

@Csnoopy

Absolutely none, as far as I can tell. I spent some time looking for some sort of qualifier, but there is none that I can see. Either on the front, or in the small print on the back.

 

[simonk]

I don't remember if I specified a debit order date when I took out my 4U contract, and it might be that that field appears on the contract form for future use, but legally speaking, I would think that what appears in the standard terms & conditions of the contract - if not amended by yourself, is what applies...

When signing a contract, one can actually amend terms & conditions, i.e. delete or change Ts&Cs that one does not agree with - both the contract holder and the service provider representative would need to sign next to each of these changes for such changes to be valid, however it is unlikely that a cellular service provider representative would have the authority to agree to amended standard Ts&Cs, and would therefore not sign for any such amendments.

@simonk, what debit order date was printed on your June 2007 Tax Invoice?

It's the 29th. This is not something I normally check. It's never been an issue before.

So what you are saying is, even though they requested a date on the front, which I then gave them, the terms and conditions override that? I would have thought, that because I filled in that specific date, in the appropriate section of the contract, which was also signed by a representative of vodacom, that that would somehow be an amendment to the contract, approved by both of us.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about legal technicality's, but either way, it strikes me as misleading and certainly not good practice in terms of maintaining a positive relationship with the customer.

 

[ic]

It's the 29th. This is not something I normally check. It's never been an issue before.

So what you are saying is, even though they requested a date on the front, which I then gave them, the terms and conditions override that? I would have thought, that because I filled in that specific date, in the appropriate section of the contract, which was also signed by a representative of vodacom, that that would somehow be an amendment to the contract, approved by both of us.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about legal technicality's, but either way, it strikes me as misleading and certainly not good practice in terms of maintaining a positive relationship with the customer.

My somewhat uninformed opinion - I'm also not any kind of legal expert, is that the customer requested debit order day of month on the front of the contract, is more of a suggestion than anything strictly binding, and certainly when the requested debit order day of month falls on a Sunday, as it did in your case, Vodacom would not have been able to fulfill your expectation of the debit order being processed on that particular date...

Having said that, I'm not really sure that the first day of a month is really a wise selection for a post-paid contract when the billing runs from the first day of any given month to the last day of that same month, call it month X [e.g. June 2007], and the tax invoice [bill] is then generated in month X+1 [e.g. July 2007] and sent to the customer, as this implies that the debit order would possibly be run prior to the customer having actually received the tax invoice. Perhaps it might be better to ask your service provider [VSP] to change the debit order day of month to something like the 7th of every month, and if they say it can be done then you will also know that the field on the front of the contract probably is used...

 

[simonk]

My somewhat uninformed opinion - I'm also not any kind of legal expert, is that the customer requested debit order day of month on the front of the contract, is more of a suggestion than anything strictly binding, and certainly when the requested debit order day of month falls on a Sunday, as it did in your case, Vodacom would not have been able to fulfill your expectation of the debit order being processed on that particular date...

Having said that, I'm not really sure that the first day of a month is really a wise selection for a post-paid contract when the billing runs from the first day of any given month to the last day of that same month, call it month X [e.g. June 2007], and the tax invoice [bill] is then generated in month X+1 [e.g. July 2007] and sent to the customer, as this implies that the debit order would possibly be run prior to the customer having actually received the tax invoice. Perhaps it might be better to ask your service provider [VSP] to change the debit order day of month to something like the 7th of every month, and if they say it can be done then you will also know that the field on the front of the contract probably is used...

Normally what happens, is that I get the bill for month X about halfway through month X+1, and the amount on the bill normally comes off at the end of month X+1, or if it was as I thought it was supposed to be, on the 1st of month X+2. Although, I may have things backwards.

 

[ic]

Normally what happens, is that I get the bill for month X about halfway through month X+1, and the amount on the bill normally comes off at the end of month X+1, or if it was as I thought it was supposed to be, on the 1st of month X+2. Although, I may have things backwards.

I think that is where the problem is, my understanding of a post-paid cellular contract, is that one makes use of the service(s) in month X and then pays for that month X usage in month X+1, not in month X+2.

 

[simonk]

I think that is where the problem is, my understanding of a post-paid cellular contract, is that one makes use of the service(s) in month X and then pays for that month X usage in month X+1, not in month X+2.

I know up until this point that the debit order was actually coming off on the last working day of the month, as you outlined it. I phoned customer services and they told me that this was the date for the debit order. The problem only became apparent in June, when my salary only showed up in my account on the 30th(a Saturday), and the debit order went through on the 29th.