Why ISIS fight

OrbitalDawn said:
Nope. They just show what otherwise normal people are capable of when fuelled by sincere, but fanatic devotion to a destructive ideology. Everyone that worked in the Stasi or Gestapo wasn't a psychopath either.
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I also think people join them out of fear of being their enemies. You can't say people are not $hit scared of ISIS.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Not really understanding the sarcasm...? If you disagree, let's discuss it.
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Ag, I'm not really interested in an academic debate on this topic. I'm quite happy to stereotypically classify them as evil fcking nutters and vermin who should be wiped from the face of the earth.

I fully recognize that's it's a purely emotional response on my part and I'm comfortable with that with respect to this topic.

I don't care what their motivations or end goals are - I merely observe their behavior and have formed my opinion accordingly.

Cheers
 
OrbitalDawn said:
You think all 50k+ of them just happen to be psychopaths? Read the article in the OP and the following one and consider it a bit. Psychopaths aren't motivated by shared ideologies, and don't go to war over them.

What ISIS Really Wants
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That is a scary article. You just cannot reason with death cultists that far gone.

Pretty much the worst of what can happen to a religion.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
You think all 50k+ of them just happen to be psychopaths? Read the article in the OP and the following one and consider it a bit. Psychopaths aren't motivated by shared ideologies, and don't go to war over them.

What ISIS Really Wants
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Thank you for that link. Boy was it a long article, but brilliantly written, almost restored my faith in modern journalism.
Very educational.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Because they're not psychopaths. They just sincerely believe in their ideologies.
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Actually I know of two muslims that I know personaly who have expressed their support for isis....both are what I would describe as trigger happy and both have never been religious or devout yet they now throw out Quranic verses and terms about conveniently to justify their support for ISIS.

I won't be surprised if ISIS is mainly made up of trigger happy rebels and pshycopaths actually. Sure there would be a few misdirected normal people but they won't form the bulk of the 50k IMO.
 
falcon786 said:
Actually I know of two muslims that I know personaly who have expressed their support for isis....both are what I would describe as trigger happy and both have never been religious or devout yet they now throw out Quranic verses and terms about conveniently to justify their support for ISIS.

I won't be surprised if ISIS is mainly made up of trigger happy rebels and pshycopaths actually. Sure there would be a few misdirected normal people but they won't form the bulk of the 50k IMO.
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The problem is that Islam, the Koran and the way it is preached inspires people to have these attitudes.

There are good people who happen to follow the religion but the way the religion inspires people to such violence clearly shows that there is a problem with it.
 
AfricanTech said:
Still doesn't explain why they're such fcking psychopaths though
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They've been trained to hate from a young age. That is why ISIS is able to obtain their loyalty, by triggering those memories of what they've been taught.

[video=youtube;ZL0C2QvqIlo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL0C2QvqIlo[/video]
 
It's not only ISIS but Hamas too. Here's a children's program to "educate" the children:

[video=youtube;hcmHvczBGqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmHvczBGqg&list=PL6644A687FC212F81&index=13[/video]
 
falcon786 said:
Actually I know of two muslims that I know personaly who have expressed their support for isis....both are what I would describe as trigger happy and both have never been religious or devout yet they now throw out Quranic verses and terms about conveniently to justify their support for ISIS.

I won't be surprised if ISIS is mainly made up of trigger happy rebels and pshycopaths actually. Sure there would be a few misdirected normal people but they won't form the bulk of the 50k IMO.
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Psychopaths aren't that prevalent and they won't fall in line with ideologues en masse. I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few who just use it as a vehicle for their sadism. But that doesn't explain ISIS as a group and their overall brutality.
 
Kilgore_Trout_Redux said:
The problem is that Islam, the Koran and the way it is preached inspires people to have these attitudes.

There are good people who happen to follow the religion but the way the religion inspires people to such violence clearly shows that there is a problem with it.
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If that was true then ISIS wouldn't have such a small support Base that it currently has out of almost 2 billion muslims how many have actually joined ISIS?

If there was a true khaliphate that was freeing muslim lands from dictators etc the right way without just killing others then me and almost 2 billion other muslims would give them physical and moral support.Isis is not that khaliphate unfortunately and the bulk majority of muslims support that.These(the bulk of muslims today) are people that have subscribed and lived by the Islamic doctrine all their lives in many cases and as can clearly be seen that doctrine is not pushing them towards joining ISIS or moving backwards to things like slavery.

That posted by Orbital article ignored many things like the Prophets positive attitude and encouragement of freeing slaves which basically tells muslims that a slave free world is not undesirable as ISIS would try to twist it.But the article is showing the ISIS muslim point of view so it's correct from that perspective however it's not correct from the perspective of the bulk majority of the almost two billion muslims in the world today.
 
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OrbitalDawn said:
Psychopaths aren't that prevalent and they won't fall in line with ideologues en masse. I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few who just use it as a vehicle for their sadism. But that doesn't explain ISIS as a group and their overall brutality.
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Not necessarily clinically accurate "psychopaths" but basically like I described normal people who were always naturally trigger happy or aggressive or rebellious or frustrated .....these types of people are quite prevalent in any normal society and that's who ISIS recruiters target.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Psychopaths aren't that prevalent and they won't fall in line with ideologues en masse. I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few who just use it as a vehicle for their sadism. But that doesn't explain ISIS as a group and their overall brutality.
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and this is why I pre-emptively stepped out of the discussion with you - the probability that you would would be nitpicking on the definition of 'psychopath' was high
 
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falcon786 said:
If that was true then ISIS wouldn't have such a small support Base that it currently has out of almost 2 billion muslims how many have actually joined ISIS?

If there was a true khaliphate that was freeing muslim lands from dictators etc the right way without just killing others then me and almost 2 billion other muslims would give them physical and moral support.Isis is not that khaliphate unfortunately and the bulk majority of muslims support that.These(the bulk of muslims today) are people that have subscribed and lived by the Islamic doctrine all their lives in many cases and as can clearly be seen that doctrine is not pushing them towards joining ISIS or moving backwards to things like slavery.

That posted by Orbital article ignored many things like the Prophets positive attitude and encouragement of freeing slaves which basically tells muslims that a slave free world is not undesirable as ISIS would try to twist it.But the article is showing the ISIS muslim point of view so it's correct from that perspective however it's not correct from the perspective of the bulk majority of the almost two billion muslims in the world today.
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I have not yet met a single Muslim who believes that ISIS represents mainstream Islam
 
AfricanTech said:
and this is why I pre-emptively stepped out of the discussion with you - the probability that you would would be nitpicking on the definition of 'psychopath' was high
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Why is that a problem? :confused:

Why use the word if that's not what's meant?

And I don't think it's nitpicking. It's quite important, in my view, to understand the difference between psychopathy and sincere religiously motivated barbarity. It's too easy to simply write them off as "evil fcking nutters and vermin" and thus not even try to understand the ideology and motivation that spawned it, and continues to drive recruitment.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why is that a problem? :confused:

Why use the word if that's not what's meant?

And I don't think it's nitpicking. It's quite important, in my view, to understand the difference between psychopathy and sincere religiously motivated barbarity. It's too easy to simply write them off as "evil fcking nutters and vermin" and thus not even try to understand the ideology and motivation that spawned it, and continues to drive recruitment.
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This is important, the moment you classify people as "evil" you distance yourself from them, you make them out to be monsters. It's a lot easier for people to believe that only monsters commit evil deeds rather that regular people. The truth is a lot of Nazi's that committed horrible crimes weren't psychopaths, a lot of people who helped with the genocides in Cambodia and Rwanda weren't either. If you believe that only "monsters" would commit these deeds you make the mistake of thinking this kind of thing won't happen closer to home
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why is that a problem? :confused:

Why use the word if that's not what's meant?

And I don't think it's nitpicking. It's quite important, in my view, to understand the difference between psychopathy and sincere religiously motivated barbarity. It's too easy to simply write them off as "evil fcking nutters and vermin" and thus not even try to understand the ideology and motivation that spawned it, and continues to drive recruitment.
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Ok. Let's just leave the psychopath discussion for the moment and you graciously accept that psychopath as used by myself in this context = "evil fcking nutters and vermin" - I'll explain why

"evil fcking nutters and vermin" - I use this term because I believe that they, like all other religious nutters, have selectively perverted the meaning and interpretation of the religious texts that they use. I say this because the overwhelming majority of 'mainstream' Muslims reject the ISIS interpretation in the same way that the overwhelming majority of Christians rejected David Koresh's interpretation of the Bible.

The reams that have been written on the 'sincere religious motivated barbarity' have been written from the perspective of an acceptance that the ISIS version of Islam is the same as the mainstream version of Islam. This is simply not true.

Mainstream Muslims do not believe in Slavery; they do not believe in torture, and they do not accept the kinds of acts that ISIS regards as 'normal' as being 'normal'.

So, the followers of ISIS are "evil fcking nutters and vermin" - normal people (Muslims included), do not look for justifications within "Holy Books" to act out their barbaric motivations.



Disclaimer: My personal belief is that all religion is hogwash; it's a construct that can be useful to 'easily' teach children a 'moral' framework that enables society to function in a positive manner, but the reality is that it is more often perverted to suit the needs of power and control.
 
Cray said:
This is important, the moment you classify people as "evil" you distance yourself from them, you make them out to be monsters. It's a lot easier for people to believe that only monsters commit evil deeds rather that regular people. The truth is a lot of Nazi's that committed horrible crimes weren't psychopaths, a lot of people who helped with the genocides in Cambodia and Rwanda weren't either. If you believe that only "monsters" would commit these deeds you make the mistake of thinking this kind of thing won't happen closer to home
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Exactly this. It's a cop out, imo. Just brandish them "evil" and don't even attempt to critically interrogate their motivation, their beliefs, their ideas.
 
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