Why not 2 price structures?

[Clipse]

I'd go for that (if the R300 was inclusive of everything, ie. POTS rental, ADSL rental, ISP and unshaped bandwidth).

I'm still on 56k, can get more from it (uncapped, unshaped) than ADSL and it's cheaper (a lot) than ADSL...

Well is it better than ADSL? Even shaped adsl get more than 5k/s, get better than 200ms locally and can connect 24/7.

The whole dialup issue is flawed, it does cost more and damn its inconvenient.

 

[JBFRobisher]

Well sadly telkom doesnt sell 1Mbit diginet lines and then hand out different pricing per meg for callmore.

How do you guys seriously expect this? Altho some of you may not know the above

Of course they don't - but why does some innovative ISP go to a top-level ISP and see what can be negotiated? Or is it just too easy to accept the status quo and bitch all day long?

 

[Clipse]

Top level ISP is Telkom, do you honestly think that no one have tried to get cheaper diginet fees? Telkom is refusing.

 

[Rkootknir]

Well is it better than ADSL? Even shaped adsl get more than 5k/s, get better than 200ms locally and can connect 24/7.

The whole dialup issue is flawed, it does cost more and damn its inconvenient.

My whole issue is price.

30 callmore calls + ABSA ISP + POTS rental + Infinitcall = R420 p.m.

Which, unless I'm mistaken, is a lot cheaper than you can get any decent (ie. unshaped and at least 20GB transfer) ADSL connection for.

So, yes it's far better than ADSL ito price. I don't really care about a constant connection - I want to be able to run my line at 100% all the time

I will jump at the first affordable ADSL package I can get, don't really enjoy watching the bits trickle down on a 56k...

 

[JBFRobisher]

Top level ISP is Telkom, do you honestly think that no one have tried to get cheaper diginet fees? Telkom is refusing.

Well that is at least a better answer than "How do you guys seriously expect this?".

What about this. Those diginet lines are sunken costs to a big ISP - you are paying for them anyway. They are overutilised in the day and underutilised at night ( I might be wrong here but I don't think so judging from thruputs at different times of the day ). To get some extra traffic at night, and thereby contribute something to the cost of the lines, you could offer a LeechMore service. Or what don't I get this time?

 

[Clipse]

My whole issue is price.

30 callmore calls + ABSA ISP + POTS rental + Infinitcall = R420 p.m.

Which, unless I'm mistaken, is a lot cheaper than you can get any decent (ie. unshaped and at least 20GB transfer) ADSL connection for.

So, yes it's far better than ADSL ito price. I don't really care about a constant connection - I want to be able to run my line at 100% all the time

I will jump at the first affordable ADSL package I can get, don't really enjoy watching the bits trickle down on a 56k...

Interesting, can you do 20gig a month on 56k at avg of 5K/s and only during callmore?

Working out 5k/s x 60 seconds x 60mins = 18mb / hr x 24 = 432MB x 30days = 12960MB ,

and this would cost you R90 + R60(ABSA 56K ISP afaik cost this much) + R50 infinitecall enabled + R9 per infinitecall + ((R9x4) + R9) per week) x 4 = 180 per month for infinitecall time + (R32 per hour peak time x 12hrs per day) x 4 days per week) = R1536 x 4 weeks = R6144


The grand total counting all totals to make a 24/7 56k connection to download uncapped(lol) and unshaped(still pointless) = R6524

For R6524 at the most expensive on ADSL you can get a 1Mbit line(R680) + pots rental(R90) + 40gig unshaped(R125 per gig roughly) = R5770 , about R850 cheaper than the 56k quote above, 20times faster and 4x more usage.


This all is the bare minimum staying on 24/7 for 30days, only one connection during the specified periods.

Not at all cheaper, altho still ADSL pricing is not justified the point Im trying to make 56k cost ALOT more to get even remotely as much as you can on adsl.


I hope everyone can get my point from the detailed work above, enough with the 56k comparison, 56K or ISDN cannot be compared with ADSL on speed or pricing.

If you dont want 24/7 internet then go for 56k/ISDN but please try to compare apples with apples, if so, then above is true.

 

[Clipse]

Well that is at least a better answer than "How do you guys seriously expect this?".

What about this. Those diginet lines are sunken costs to a big ISP - you are paying for them anyway. They are overutilised in the day and underutilised at night ( I might be wrong here but I don't think so judging from thruputs at different times of the day ). To get some extra traffic at night, and thereby contribute something to the cost of the lines, you could offer a LeechMore service. Or what don't I get this time?

Leechmore session is not a step forward for ADSL, whats next, Callmore minutes to use your ADSL line? ADSL only active from 7pm-7am rest of the time its unusable?

I know people want alternatives, but this is all steps backwards, WAY BACK.

 

[JBFRobisher]

Leechmore session is not a step forward for ADSL, whats next, Callmore minutes to use your ADSL line? ADSL only active from 7pm-7am rest of the time its unusable?

I know people want alternatives, but this is all steps backwards, WAY BACK.

Why? Because maybe some of your full-day access customers might go over to a cheaper alternative and you might lose a few $$? You are more likely to gain $$. It is all very well saying it is a step back, but some reasoning would be good. We need bandwidth at affordable prices, and that is becoming harder to find. Like I said, why do both the phone and the cell networks have better rates after hours? To pump more thru the infrastructure and sweat the assets.

 

[bekdik]

Why not have 2 price structures in place?

One for home users and one for business?

Just a suggestion.

Telkom had that and have just dropped it.

 

[JBFRobisher]

I hope everyone can get my point from the detailed work above, enough with the 56k comparison, 56K or ISDN cannot be compared with ADSL on speed or pricing.

Sure, on speed. But on thruput lets work it out ( a bit optimistically I know! ) for callmore time only:

Taking your 5k/s x 60 seconds x 60mins = 18mb / hr
22 weekdays = 22 x 12 hours = 22 x 12 x 18 = 4752 Mb
9 weekend days = 9 x 24 hours = 9 x 24 x 18 = 3888 Mb
Total max download = 8.4 Gb

Taking your R90 + R60(ABSA 56K ISP afaik cost this much) + R50 infinitecall enabled + R9 per infinitecall + ((R9x4) + R9) per week) x 4 = 180 per month for infinitecall time you get R380 all in.

8.4 Gb for R380. Say 7 Gb for having the odd line drop.

What is that going to cost you on ADSL?

 

[Rkootknir]

Interesting, can you do 20gig a month on 56k at avg of 5K/s and only during callmore?

Nope, most I've ever gotten was 9GB download and upload combined. However, what use is the speed of ADSL if I can't use it?, thus the 20GB minimum.

[edit]
I really can't afford to spend more than R500 p.m. on internet access, so ADSL is a no no ATM. The TelkomInternet accounts look tempting: R270 (192k) + R90 (POTS) + R199 (3GB shaped TelkomInternet) = R559, the shaping means its usefulness is limited though. The unshaped equivalent (4GB) is R1039 which is waaayyy to expensive.

You may be able to get more than the specified caps, but being capped at some random future time is not my idea of an always on connection.

Each person probably has his own idea of what ADSL should be like.

 

[stoke]

Well...
I WANT A LOCAL AND AN INTERNATIONAL ADSL PACKAGE.

Local = Use as much local as you like unshaped and uncapped at your line speed with a 56Kbits/s international pipe, costing R100 a month.

International = Use as much local as you like unshaped and uncapped at your line speed and then add one of the following:
A - 0256Kbits/s international pipe - no cap, fixed ip address, costs R 050 a month.
B - 0384Kbits/s international pipe - no cap, fixed ip address, costs R 100 a month.
C - 0512Kbits/s international pipe - no cap, fixed ip address, costs R 150 a month.
D - 1024bits/s international pipe - no cap, fixed ip address, costs R 300 a month.

ADSL line rental = free, Teklom telephone [POTS] line rental = free.
Installation cost = R2600 over 1 year or 6 months - your choice.

We [peeps at home] can then get the LOCAL package and use one of the local PROXY/Tunneling providers.

 

[hj2k_x]

Sure, on speed. But on thruput lets work it out ( a bit optimistically I know! ) for callmore time only:

Taking your 5k/s x 60 seconds x 60mins = 18mb / hr
22 weekdays = 22 x 12 hours = 22 x 12 x 18 = 4752 Mb
9 weekend days = 9 x 24 hours = 9 x 24 x 18 = 3888 Mb
Total max download = 8.4 Gb

Taking your R90 + R60(ABSA 56K ISP afaik cost this much) + R50 infinitecall enabled + R9 per infinitecall + ((R9x4) + R9) per week) x 4 = 180 per month for infinitecall time you get R380 all in.

8.4 Gb for R380. Say 7 Gb for having the odd line drop.

What is that going to cost you on ADSL?

Well i will have done 30 gigs this month for 215 bucks on a 192k line with cheetah...

Also chances of getting a solid 5k/sec off copper cables no matter where you are are slim...Never mind the chances that u'll be cut off often.

Now dsl may not be quite as cutting edge as we would all like in SA but suggesting that dialup be in any way better is a little far-fetched imho.

 

[Clipse]

I think in general we all have the same idea, we need faster and cheaper internet access.

Nothing inbetween.

 

[bwana]

Well i will have done 30 gigs this month for 215 bucks on a 192k line with cheetah...

Also chances of getting a solid 5k/sec off copper cables no matter where you are are slim...Never mind the chances that u'll be cut off often.

Now dsl may not be quite as cutting edge as we would all like in SA but suggesting that dialup be in any way better is a little far-fetched imho.

Did you include the r270.00 telkom charge for the 192 plus the r80ish for the line rental?

Quick question - that r215 Cheetah account sounds interesting - it gives you a 30gb cap local and international access?

BTW - I put partial blame of telkom capping local on the shoulders of the businesses who used adsl for vpns and chowed bandwidth. Let em subsidize the home user

 

[hj2k_x]

Did you include the r270.00 telkom charge for the 192 plus the r80ish for the line rental?

Quick question - that r215 Cheetah account sounds interesting - it gives you a 30gb cap local and international access?

BTW - I put partial blame of telkom capping local on the shoulders of the businesses who used adsl for vpns and chowed bandwidth. Let em subsidize the home user

hehe, yeah my bad, did not include the ridiculous telskom line rental charges. Sorry bout that. But Cheetah is a good choice. 215 bucks for 3 gig international then a further 27 gig local which has very limited international browsing, but u can make full use of the 27 gigs with local torrents...

They get my vote...