Why should contract customers pay for CLIP

And when Caesar's bureaucrats and magistrates involve themselves in the arcane details of accounting practices and technology decisions (like LLU to name but one), we return to Byzantium, with a baroque twist.
Hadn't seen this before

LLU is actually a perfect example of a concept that can take either a heavy bureaucratic hand or can be a very good model where the bureaucrats can write themselves out of a position of control by devising a rules based approach that is firmly rooted in law and which sees the parties commercium engaging in their own stead. The FLA approach to LLU - which is what ICASA and myself are advocating - would see the provisions of statute given effect, the property holder (for convenience landlord, although often [erroneously] termed incumbent] determining the price and the agreement being publicly registered with ICASA the notary.

As for why the statute has sound basis to impose an obligation to lease: facilities leasing is little more than a recognition that improvements to a public servitude are not exclusive and that where an enterprise may introduce a road outside of privity of contract or original ownership that road is a public road and improvements made thereon are for the enjoyment of all who may use the servitude - the same applies to canals, railway lines etc ...
[in English terms an easement compelled is likely to be a Highway for the form of traffic for which compulsory access was imposed. A utility easement by one provider is available to successor and alternate utilities provided that fees are paid and interruptions not created]

If you look at the policy debates and submissions you'll see that some market participants are pleading to the State to price set and effectively compel Telkom to provide a free ride whilst Telkom is seeking to preclude access while still preserving the right of a dominant on estate. Unless Telkom wants to surrender their right to create wayleaves. Ironically Telkom are very good on the utility civils front and could actually run a successful low margin business of bridging between whoever wants to blast fiber and the awful municipalities. ICASAs position could lead to greater regulatory intervention but that is not a given. Take a look at MWEB's submissions who want to introduce a regulatory heavy approach based on New Zealand whereas the UK and Netherlands has had a wonderful experience with LLU. Take a look at my submissions on LLU ;)

So as with CTRs we actually have a situation where the "dominant firm" is absolutely opposed to a structure of playing by the rules, the emerging firms want a free ride and the default assumption is for the regulator to price determine. What we need is to move from regulation of pricing to rule based regulation. Both MTN and Vodacom plead for the regulator to price determine the costings on terminations resulting in bizarre accounting nonsense - have you seen the latest from Vodacom complaining about the transmission costs from Telkom for out in the bundu. What is needed is rule based setup for wholesale termination by operators and in my opinion the "effective rate" published by an operator is a rather good starting point. The transition however is a little bit of jumping around. The reality is that one cannot go to Chancery for remedy in equity where there is no legal right and then protest the Kings conscience when the writ and use fashioned is not to your liking, which is exactly what MTN and Vodacom are guilty of.


On this subject there is much to be looked at what the sort of "bureaucrat" serve the public best. My own interest naturally causes a look at the issues of what institutions serve judicial efficiency (the best interests of the proper administration of justice) and the many misguided changes under the moniker "case flow management". Our superior courts system does as well (or badly) with the limited registry staff as many organizations - both public and private sector - do with multitudes of call centres etc ...

The real death of any civil service is a public authority controlled by petty private bureaucrats - who are usually appointees in some fashion of nepotism or another - but the public minded constable bound to his oath the Her Majesty who takes civil pay and does diligent service under the motivation of the self-actualization of the dignity of office has always been the cause of exemplary policing.
 
Paul, that comment didn't need a response ... just saying that bureaucracy has a way of multiplying intricacy faster than a tumorous Mandelbrot set.

I agree with your proposals. I would go a step further and get the State out of it entirely. Regarding Telkom's dominant estate - this was established whilst competition was banned (ie they had a state-erected monopoly). In a deregulated and liberalised world, that monopoly should be disestablished and sold off pro-rata to the bidders.
 
the problem isn't with the assets themselves but with the easements (to use the English rather than applicable legal terminology) and the fact that communication network operators want the ability to impose an easement on others property

Bureaucracy spawns bureaucracy whether public or private and the particular charm of the bureaucrat is to wield the bureaucratic machinery to acquire power but the desk is inevitable and it is better to make sure that office overrides the holder such that the holder doesn't expand and duplicate the office.

The question of whether the State is involved depends largely on the definition used of State. I'd certainly push to keep the fisc and executive out but the question should be phrased thus: is the State involved in the land registration system? Technically the Registrar of Deeds is a component of the State. The moment something has the characteristics of a monopoly and public service rational of existence it should in my view be part of the res publica a public institution a part of the State but this is not the same as part of government or subject to policy making of the day. I don't see any reason to specifically preclude a communications agreements registry from reporting to Parliament every year and to some minister quarterly from maintaining a tribunal for dispute resolution arising from the agreements (subject always to the High Court) and so forth, I would prefer such a registry to be regionalized and pushed to an arms length of the Republic (and preferably seated in a neighbouring state ...).
 
Can someone bring it to their attention they're off the topic.

I'm not sure how to express that in gibberish.
 
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actually we are quite squarely on topic as you are attempting to claim that the MNOs should be compelled to do something because you regard it as an unfair practice by "Vodacon"
if you follow the line of reasoning the discussion focuses on whether MNOs are incorporating the billing into the methodology of costings and the implications of the sort of regulating done on price

it flows to the question of distortions created by the sort of nonsense you are advocating
 
:lol:

simply - prepaid users pay for clip. just because you don't see it as a line item in what you pay doesn't mean it's not factored into the costing.
 
So then, do us a favour. Take the MNO's to court, get it all sorted out for us then.
 
CLIP is supposed to be optional and the MNO is not allowed to disguise it as a hidden cost.
And you approve of the fact that Caesar can tell citizens how they may and may not bundle and price their products and services?

"Disguised"? "Hidden cost"?? So when you buy something every single cost element must be separately detailed? Are you for real?

"Not allowed to" is so, er, parental. That sort of interference in commerce by Caesar is what throttles business and stifles innovation. It's crypto-communist claptrap.

Above all, it ends up hurting the consumer. Just look at what it did to consumers in the regulated commie economies.

Get some perspective. We are talking here about a petty little service, not assault or murder.
 
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After years of prepaid non-hassle, my SO bullied me into taking a contract. I hate the phone (Blackberry) and can't wait for the contract to end so I can go back to my prepaid phone. I hope it is easy to terminate it. Will have to read the 1000-page small print contract properly before I get suckered into another round.
 
Recently I restructured my phone contracts. Paid in to settle existing contracts. Ported all to Telkom Mobile Business, with Smart OneRate. Postpaid contract, SIM-only, fixed call and data rates so no OOB, month-to-month. The mobile charges are consolidated in a single account from Telkom for landlines, DSL, etc. Loving it. So there are many options.
 
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